Clear Channel deemphasizing KNRS brand?

[CAwasinNJ]

There's a billboard for the Dave Ramsey Show on northbound I15 in Davis County and curiously I don't see any mention of either KNRS or the "Family Values Talk Radio" branding. The only reason I can think of to do that would be because it just doesn't matter in these days of Purple Personal People Meters. Thing is, the KNRS brand is well known and well established. Why not build on that? I'm not getting it. Ideas?

[dxstuboy]

I think you're right unfortunately. Its like Henry said about the Blaze. Whether you like it or not, PPM will pick up what station you're listening to without you even knowing it. I think its a bad idea, but I am a stickler for brand power.

[Timmy]

I think it goes against human programming. Everything in life has a label. Your name, your car, the trees, bugs, products at the store, EVERYTHING.

PPM is de-humanizing radio very rapidly! Taking out personality, taking out branding, taking out imaging... People need to connect with radio.

I also have a rant about the "convenient" timing of PPM with so many radio groups/stations having such huge financial problems, but that can wait...

[CAwasinNJ]

I'll play Devil's Advocate here for a moment. You could make a case that the frequency IS the label. Further, you can make a case that it's the only label you need to know. On most radios that's the only label that you can use. As long as you know how to find it, the PPM will do the rest.

That point having been made, I don't buy it. There's a reason people give things names. That connects them in a personable way to the object. Boats, planes, cars, spaceships, and on and on. Just having "my boat" is not as warm and fuzzy as having "Tug the Boat." Radio is the same. It's the same argument as why it's important to create a connection on the station with the audience, usually with personalities people like to listen to. The frequency is generic. How many format have been on 105.7 in the last 15 years? It's at least 8. (The Mountain, KCPX, Channel 105.7, River v1, River v2, My Country, La Preciosa, KNRS) All of those names are unique to what the station was at that time.

And a footnote to make sure there's no misunderstanding. It isn't that I dislike Clear Channel or KNRS. I had the same criticism of 104.7, which at least makes a half-hearted attempt by calling itself "Utah's 104.7" (even though it's licensed to Wyoming, but that's another story) and it's actually my favorite station. I just think the current strategy should be rethought.

[dolt]

A substantial portion of my listening time is spent on streams from out of state stations. I forget, how does PPM deal with that?

[seattlefollower]

dolt, if enough PPM panelists were listening to them and they were encoded they would show - so you'd have to be listening to a top 30 (ish) or larger market and you'd have to have a lot of panelist friends for them to show.

In Seattle, sometimes Portland stations are making the ratings - as are some Seattle stations in Portland at the bottom since people commute between both so frequently. It's around 1 panelist in the sample though so they only pop in and out at the bottom of the barrel.

[seattlefollower]

Feb 11, 2010 22:03:16 GMT -7 CAwasinNJ said:

I'll play Devil's Advocate here for a moment. You could make a case that the frequency IS the label. Further, you can make a case that it's the only label you need to know. On most radios that's the only label that you can use. As long as you know how to find it, the PPM will do the rest.

As a former employee, I will state that once "KIRO" made the move to 97.3 FM, most callers that were under the age of 65 (you can kind of get an idea by people's voices of their age) and all female callers tended to identify the station as "97 point 3" when calling. The new logo reflects this via research into brand strategy and anecdotal evidence:

versus older logo right after move to FM:

Sorry about size on that last one, I don't see a way to re-size on here.

[michaeljwyo]

I've noticed this trend as well. Not only in radio but TV too. Not that there are PPM's in TV, but these days with OTA (over the air) TV all having gone digital, I guess channel numbers are not that important. I've seen web sites and stuff in other markets where it just appears they are hanging on to their original channel number if nothing more because that's what people associate with the station. Right now, 2, 4, 5, 7, 11 etc....are no longer. Because of the digital, they mean nothing. None of those are actually transmitting on that channel. If I understand it right, the digital tuner will find whatever stations and that's that. The digital tuner may still "brand" it as "2" or "5" but it's no more than a name now. Sorta like the way the calls have gone. Hardly anyone uses calls anymore and doesn't care. In every market you find a few that are rock-solid on their calls because they are so well knows. KSOP and KSL are probably a good example of that but it seems a rarity anymore. Yet at the same time, stations continue to choose their calls because in some way or another they mean something. Why be picky if you're not gonna ever mention the calls except for once an hour anyway.
To bring this back to the original subject, it's interesting to note that KNRS probably came from the original incarntion of the calls back when they branded as K-news. NRS almost spells NEWS. However they actually emphasized them and despite changing to family values....the KNRS stuck and became familiar and were associated with the station.

Anyways....I'm digressing

Michael n Wyo

[CAwasinNJ]

Anyone who flash-cut is still on their same channel number, that's certain. Fox 13 was originally the only one of the VHF stations that was going to go back to their VHF allocation post-transition but wisely changed their mind. The branding on TV is a little different though, since there are multiple sources of program material - network, syndicated and local. TV tends to brand with the network, which I suppose makes sense since that's where the most people will be watching.

Why be picky if you're not gonna ever mention the calls except for once an hour anyway.

The only answer I can think of is that the people who make those decisions are the engineers who are probably geeks. They'd probably use the calls more often if only the marketing people would let them.

[David]

I realize this is sort of off topic, but since I haven't seen an explanation anywhere else, here goes: does anyone know why KNRS has shut off the station's stereo pilot since making the switch to FM? Yeah, I realize that most of their programming is strictly talk and that stereo sound probably doesn't make that much difference in the sound quality, but my thinking is that KNRS would keep the stereo pilot switched on to better compete with KSL-FM.

[dolt]

Thanks Seattlefollower!

[dxstuboy]

Feb 13, 2010 12:46:13 GMT -7 David said:

I realize this is sort of off topic, but since I haven't seen an explanation anywhere else, here goes: does anyone know why KNRS has shut off the station's stereo pilot since making the switch to FM? Yeah, I realize that most of their programming is strictly talk and that stereo sound probably doesn't make that much difference in the sound quality, but my thinking is that KNRS would keep the stereo pilot switched on to better compete with KSL-FM.

My guess is to make their IBUZ fit even better. It may have been causing problems with 105.3 or 106.1. They also have their RDS off. It is a lost cause though, nobody at CC reads these boards.

(Not 106.3---doh)

[CAwasinNJ]

I don't think they care about either 105.3 or 106.1.

The problem with FM stereo is that it's significantly noisier at the edges of the signal than an FM mono signal is. All else being equal, turning the stereo pilot off will give you a larger area where you have clear reception with no fuzz. Problem is, all else is *not* equal. Most radios have a blend circuit that automatically mixes the channels to mono when the signal gets weak. That used to be a rarity, but not anymore. It used to be that there was a button you'd push to disable stereo, but then the engineers came up with a better idea. If we were still in the time of no blend circuits then I could understand turning stereo off. Today it doesn't seem to matter much.

[seattlefollower]

CA, Bonneville did the same thing to KIRO-FM and I've seen it here in Portland where Salem used to run an FM Talker (Now failed and doing much better as Spanish/Mexican Regional... hmm). Does a stereo exciter cost extra power to run or something?!?

[michaeljwyo]

I noticed that too. But get this. Coming home the other day from Ogden, I got a stereo pilot on 105.7 so I'm guessing that the Lewis Peak booster probably still generates a stereo pilot. Wierd, eh? I listened close and of course there was no stereo separation whatsoever. Probably because the booster is picking up the mono signal from Farnsworth. On a related note, Yes CA you are correct it's because of the multi-pathing with the mountains that a station could choose to run mono instead of stereo. I can confirm this is definitely the case with KPCW in Park City. Dennis Silver and I had that discussion many times. As much as I'd love to see stereo from them since they have a lot of music content, it won't happen. And when it does (as in....someone walks by the processing and turns it on inadvertently or purposefully) they get MANY COMPLAINTS from listeners. And since it's a listener-supported station, they listen to the listeners. Even with a radio that blends both channels to mono with a weak signal, you still get the static from the stereo being on. When Dennis built the original studios everything was wired for stereo and obviously the processing and everything is stereo. So in case they ever did decide to so stereo, they could. But according to him, when they've tried turning on the stereo they get complaints about the signal being more static-y. We had the discussion again about 6 months ago when once again, the stereo was turned on. I monitor the KCWW signal here in Evanston for Dennis. I called him to tell him that I was getting a stereo pilot, yet there was no separation or anything. He said when their studios moved recently, the engineer that did the move probably did not pay close attention to wiring for stereo since they never broadcast in stereo anyway. So hence, the stereo pilot was there but there was no separation. So, it IS a rare case these days, there is one station that absolutely on purpose does NOT run a stereo pilot and it's due to their signals being located mostly in mountainous terrain and they want to be as clean as possible. I'm sure with 105.7 this has nothing to do with it other than going back to the days when ClearChannel shut off the AM STEREO pilots when a station went talk. "You don't need it. It's talk." My argument always was "well with TV most TV is talk but we very much enjoy stereo TV." Then you get into the rumors of how running stereo on AM reduces the coverage and blah blah blah......that's another story. ON FM however, yes it is indeed plausible (to use a Mythbusters word) that the signal IS improved when not sending a stereo pilot. And yes for most talk stations, no one is going to notice whether there is stereo or not. How much you wanna bet that if an FM MUSIC station turned off their stereo pilot, that very few people would notice?? WE, as radio gurus...yes WE probably would. But the average listener, I bet they wouldn't even notice. A good case in point would be KUGR in Green River, WY. DXStu can identify....he worked there at one time. KUGR is now broadcasting over an FM translator at 104.9 there. And KUGR does play a good amount of music. They are a "full service" type station. However since the old McMartin board in the KUGR studio is mono, the music coming over the translator is mono as well. I bet the ONLY complaint Al Harris has had is probably from ME. I highly doubt anyone in the whole market of 30,000 people has called to ask why 104.9 is not in stereo. Especially since when they tune in, they DO see a stereo pilot. There just isn't any separation.

I know we've digressed a lot here from "deemphasizing KNRS brand"....so if we're gonna talk about MONO maybe we should start another topic

Michael n wyo