Help with this one would be appreciated (LDS)

[gingerale]

I've been reading this board for some time now and I really enjoy the insights and varying opinions.

I have a question that I am hopeful some may be able to offer some information.

As an out of town potential buyer of a radio station located in Salt Lake City, I'm wondering if not being LDS and programming a station full of talent who likewise are not LDS, would/could this effect such a stations potential to sell successfully so far as marketing partnerships and advertising is concerned?

Knowing that SLC is heavily LDS, is it out of bounds to believe that there are many businesses that will not spend their advertising dollars on a non-LDS managed station?

I appreciate your thoughts on this matter in advance.

[gingerale]

Crickets?

Is this a taboo subject?

Yes or no, the business community in SLC can be biased when it comes to spending their dollars as per religious affiliation?

I'm a big boy, I can take it, so fire away.

[CAwasinNJ]

9 hours isn't a lot of time to expect replies, especially in the evening. You should give it a few days. I'd answer, but I don't have anything meaningful to say on the subject.

[gingerale]

Thank you for your response, I appreciate it greatly.

[amanuensis]

Apologies if I am being off-base here. But you are thinking about buying a radio station -- and asking for advice about whether to pull the trigger on a random radio fan board?? That is not due diligence.

I have no idea of the extent to which LDS business owners prefer to spend their ad dollars with the Bonneville station group (ultimately owned by the LDS Church) as opposed to the other station groups in SLC. That said, I will give you my opinion. Worth every penny you paid for it.

There is an existing radio station on nearly every FM frequency in SLC. And only three of those stations are owned by Bonneville. So the other commercial stations manage to scrape by somehow. As it happens, the three Bonneville stations are usually near the top of the publicly available 12+ ratings. So my suspicion is that advertisers who are disproportionally spending money with Bonneville are doing so because that is where the audiences for their messages are at.

Another point is that once you get past mom-and-pop businesses (and how much radio ad time do they buy anyway?), most advertisers are businesses that have religious diversity in their employees. Their marketing folk might be of any faith or none.

[zero]

As mentioned before, there are many, many radio stations in SLC. SLC is market #28 and still one of the most competitive markets in the country. Advertisers are more concerned with placing their ad buys where they will be most effective. They target a specific demographic. Religious affiliation of station ownership wouldn't make a difference. At least that has been my experience. That being said, if you wanted to actually target an LDS audience, you would likely spend your dollars on Soft Sunday Sounds on FM 100.3 for example. That particular program caters to the LDS audience specifically. Outside of that, this market operates the same as most other markets in the country.

[David]

I moved to Ogden from the suburban Minneapolis area in August 1987, and I've seen the Wasatch Front area become much more religiously and ethnically diverse in 35+ years. In Salt Lake City, the number of non-LDS members actually outnumbers the number of LDS faithful. In fact, the most recent figures I could find online indicates that approximately 40% of Utah residents are not members of the Church. When I moved to Utah in 1987, the ratio of LDS members to non-LDS members was more like 80-20 instead of 60-40 like it is now. I know there was a time when KSL radio and KSL TV wouldn't air ads for beer or other alcoholic beverages, but I don't know if that's still true today. With the number of people that have moved to Utah from out of state in the past 10-15 years, I really don't think it's much more difficult to sell advertising on radio & TV in Utah than it is anywhere else. Just my two bits worth, speaking as a long time Northern Utah resident. 🙂

[henry]

Dec 15, 2022 16:28:44 GMT -6 gingerale said:

I've been reading this board for some time now and I really enjoy the insights and varying opinions.

I have a question that I am hopeful some may be able to offer some information.

As an out of town potential buyer of a radio station located in Salt Lake City, I'm wondering if not being LDS and programming a station full of talent who likewise are not LDS, would/could this effect such a stations potential to sell successfully so far as marketing partnerships and advertising is concerned?

Knowing that SLC is heavily LDS, is it out of bounds to believe that there are many businesses that will not spend their advertising dollars on a non-LDS managed station?

I appreciate your thoughts on this matter in advance.

The Salt Lake City market is more normal than you might suspect. The market is socially conservative, but edgy content has always found its place. One of the most successful shows during the 90s and 00s was literally called "Radio From Hell" on X96. Active rock stations pop up fron time to time, including one about 20 years ago called "The Blaze" that had a pretty R-rated morning show. It wasn't successful ratings wise, but nobody protested the station either.

I don't think LDS vs not LDS is your biggest hurdle. It's simply there are too many sale-able FM signals for the size of the market. Add in a shrinking advertising pie nationally, and radio gets really squeezed. I think you'll struggle to sell enough to cover your operating expenses. Trying to carve out a niche is going to be hard, too. SLC is really an Adult Contemporary (AC) town and a Country town. But there are 4 stations chewing away at AC/Hot AC and 3 stations going at country (if you don't count classic country). Another 3 going at oldies/classic hits. Hip hop and alternative really struggle. And Urban/R&B, smooth jazz, and active rock are all D.O.A.

When I worked at KSL (radio/TV), the newsroom was probably 1/3 active LDS, 1/3 jack mormon (not practicing), and 1/3 not LDS. Nobody could tell who was what, and frankly nobody cared. I don't see religion being a barrier.

[gingerale]

Very appreciative of these responses. Another question: Is the market complacent when it comes to talk radio?

[David]

Dec 16, 2022 20:20:16 GMT -6 gingerale said:

Very appreciative of these responses. Another question: Is the market complacent when it comes to talk radio?

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "complacent", but as far as talk radio is concerned, the market is pretty conservative. KSL, KNRS, and KUER (NPR) are the 800 pound gorillas of news/talk in Salt Lake City, and I'd classify both KSL and KNRS as conservative talk radio. There's also KKAT 860 and KJJC 1230, which mostly exist to clear the Cumulus and Salem Media talk shows in the Salt Lake radio market. Those five stations seem to have the talk radio market here sewn up, so I wouldn't think there's a lot of demand for more talk radio stations in this market. Finally, there's also KBJA 1640 (a/k/a K-Talk Utah), but their listening audience is so small that it hasn't shown up in the ratings for years. Not very surprising, considering that KBJA is frequently off the air, or just broadcasting dead air. 1640's programming is what I'd describe as third tier talk radio, meaning that they mostly air shows that are below the second tier talk programs heard on KKAT and KJJC in terms of radio status.

[CAwasinNJ]

FWIW, I'm confused about the use of complacent too.

gingerale, it might be a good idea for you to also get in touch with the Utah Broadcasters Association and see if their perspective might be able to help you too.

[gingerale]

To clarify, from a local talk or sports talk point of view, is the market undersold, complacent in these areas with compelling local voices who move needles and provide the kind of wow factor to draw listeners interests, or, is the market saturated with hosts/shows all pretty much the same with a common thread of been there and done that with little variation in terms of style and projection?  Your thoughts on these matters are being discussed on our end here and we appreciate the input.

[henry]

I reiterate that in my opinion... the entire market is OVER-SOLD in all format.

Cumulus owns 94.9 and 101.9. They run a simulcast of the same station, not because it gives them extra coverage area (the contours are 2/3 similar) but because the overhead to operate ONE station and sell spots for ONE station is an indication that there isn't viability to sell spots at two.

[amanuensis]

Dec 16, 2022 23:36:28 GMT -6 David said:

Dec 16, 2022 20:20:16 GMT -6 gingerale said:

Very appreciative of these responses. Another question: Is the market complacent when it comes to talk radio?

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "complacent", but as far as talk radio is concerned, the market is pretty conservative. KSL, KNRS, and KUER (NPR) are the 800 pound gorillas of news/talk in Salt Lake City, and I'd classify both KSL and KNRS as conservative talk radio. There's also KKAT 860 and KJJC 1230, which mostly exist to clear the Cumulus and Salem Media talk shows in the Salt Lake radio market. Those five stations seem to have the talk radio market here sewn up, so I wouldn't think there's a lot of demand for more talk radio stations in this market. Finally, there's also KBJA 1640 (a/k/a K-Talk Utah), but their listening audience is so small that it hasn't shown up in the ratings for years. Not very surprising, considering that KBJA is frequently off the air, or just broadcasting dead air. 1640's programming is what I'd describe as third tier talk radio, meaning that they mostly air shows that are below the second tier talk programs heard on KKAT and KJJC in terms of radio status.

In addition to the talk stations that David mentioned, there is also KCPW (which airs a non-NPR public radio talk format) kcpw.org/ and KUMT (which airs BYU Radio) www.byuradio.org/schedule. Not to mention the sports talk stations. And Bloomberg Business Radio's financial talk shows (on 99.1).