|
|
Post by oldiesfunhouse on Sept 13, 2022 10:26:40 GMT -6
What if somebody bought KKEX, KQMB, and its translator and put the same station on all of them? On our car radio in Salt Lake, the Goat and KIX 96 kind of fight with each other. The Goat is the one that usually wins out until they start playing a really good song then that seems to be when KIX 96 takes over. That's an exaggeration of course but it does kind of seem that way.
What if the same company owned all of those properties and put the same programming on all of them and added a booster or two in the Salt Lake area?
You'd have quite a signal from Levan and Utah County, all the way into the Cache Valley in Idaho.
That would be a great idea for KALL. ESPN 967.
The fact that I don't ever remember anyone doing that makes me wonder if someone trying to do this would be breaking laws.
If one company owned all the stations in the area on that frequency, it wouldn't matter if they "protected" each other. Of course they'd have to protect stations in other cities on that frequency but as far as their own, CRANK UP THE POWER BABY!
I thought of a similar thing for 99.9. If the same people owned KWLO, KUAA, and that translator for KSVN in Ogden, you could make a nice pretty high-powered signal on 99.9. I know KUAA wouldn't work currently because it's a non-com but both formats on 96.7 are commercial so …
If all parties were agreeable, and I know that's a big IF, would there be any legal rammifications to prevent something like that from happening? |
|
|
|
Post by seattlefollower on Sept 13, 2022 16:57:32 GMT -6
What if somebody bought KKEX, KQMB, and its translator and put the same station on all of them?
You'd have quite a signal from Levan and Utah County, all the way into the Cache Valley in Idaho.
The fact that I don't ever remember anyone doing that makes me wonder if someone trying to do this would be breaking laws.
If one company owned all the stations in the area on that frequency, it wouldn't matter if they "protected" each other. Of course they'd have to protect stations in other cities on that frequency but as far as their own, CRANK UP THE POWER BABY!
If all parties were agreeable, and I know that's a big IF, would there be any legal rammifications to prevent something like that from happening?
Two country properties have been under this set up for some time as "The Wolf" - 96.1 FM, which is on East Butte in the Arco desert and covers all of the area comfortably (more or less), simulcasts with 102.1 FM which is located on a mountaintop between the Idaho side of the Tetons and the Snake River plain. I don't know if radio locator is up to date, but due to geographic terrain this station may also be on translators in Wyoming's Teton Valley as well. 96.1 used to have a translator in Pocatello due to terrain at 107.1 FM but that has adjusted to 96.9 FM after being impacted by KQEO-FM 107.1.
Another property owned by this same group "Star 98" took over 98.1 in the upper Snake River Valley and then was always a hot AC on 98.5 near Pocatello. The 98.5 signal in the Pocatello area is kind of weak and does not extend very far north, and 98.1 is on the Iona Hill to the northeast of Idaho Falls so it does not get into the deep Portneuf River Valley where a lot of Pocatello is located (it is "ok" on the areas near Chubbuck and going northward).
Finally, this group has one more station that is in a similar situation with the "98" grouping, they play classic rock. 94.9 FM is on Howard Mountain, which covers Pocatello and areas to the north, west, and south pretty well but is fairly weak north of Idaho Falls. So, they've comboed this up with 104.5 FM which is located on Iona Butte.
Before this was allowed, all of these had separate programming - 94.9, 96.1, 98.1, 98.5, 102.1, and 104.5. I believe 104.5 may have moved frequencies or been allocated as part of shuffling in eastern Idaho, southern Idaho, and northern Utah. That did not exist when I lived in the area.
Another group did a similar thing and has rebranded their country property "KUPI 99" because 99.1, which had the format and calls for years, is simulcast on a southern coverage improver at 99.9 FM. At one point there were 3 Kew-pies, 99.1, 99.5 and 99.9. I believe 99.5 was shuffled to a new frequency and assumed new programming.
A lot of what has facilitated all of this was the FCC studio changes - it is not required to have a studio located within a certain tighter distance of the originating tower, so now most of these stations can operate out of one centralized space instead of 2 to 3 others that are just costing the operator cash. The other change has to do with formats. For example, in Utah 94.9 is relaying 101.9's format now, yes? That was previously not allowed under FCC guidelines but has changed. |
|
|
|
Post by CAwasinNJ on Sept 13, 2022 20:50:02 GMT -6
What if somebody bought KKEX, KQMB, and its translator and put the same station on all of them? I've had the same thought for ages and I even brought it up with Frank back when he was getting KQMB and K244DH set up several years ago. I even used the term superstation if you can believe it. He liked the idea too, but noted that Kent Frandsen would want a lot of money to give up Kix. I'm sure he's right. Assuming someone could get him to sell and could get a suitable primary for the translator, it's definitely possible. Boosters wouldn't be practical since they aren't allowed to extend the coverage area of a station, only augment where the signal should theoretically be heard but is blocked by terrain. Moving the translator back to Salt Lake and upgrading KQMB should work though. The problem with this plan is how to sell it. A listener from Logan isn't going to visit a store in Provo. Having each signal split apart for the stopsets can be done, but that introduces the issues of interference between the signals. (On a smaller scale, that's the idea behind ZoneCasting if you want to take a look into that.) Even if you were to fix the interference problem, I'm not sure if there's any practical advantage to having the same station on the same frequency over that large an area. It has a great Oh Wow factor, but that's probably about it. The main studio rule was never really a factor even when it existed. All a station would have had to do was to route the audio from the actual studio through some hand me down audio board and maybe an EAS box in a closet of any business that was open 9-5 weekdays and that would become the nominal main studio even if nobody ever touched it. I believe that's exactly what the Humpy rimshot stations did. |
|
henry
Silver Level Member
Posts: 316
|
Post by henry on Sept 13, 2022 23:43:27 GMT -6
When Bob Morey was alive, he told me he dreamed of trying to make the 96.7 translator in SL county relay his Star 96.7 on KQMB. But he never could figure out how to do it, since a translator can't listen and broadcast on the same frequency.
|
|
|
|
Post by oldiesfunhouse on Sept 14, 2022 8:41:53 GMT -6
CA was saying a "superstation" would be hard to sell ads on (the idea of someone in Logan hearing ads for a business in Provo etc.). I guess that's why I was thinking of a sports format. The Utah Jazz have radio affiliates all over the state and BYU does too I believe. I don't know if the Utes or any of the other teams do but I would imagine that there would be interest all over the state for a sports format. And you have businesses that have locations from Provo to Logan. Maybe this concept would have made more sense 20 years ago before online streaming became a thing. Thank you for all the information, everyone. It's fascinating to hear about what other groups have done. |
|
|
|
Post by CAwasinNJ on Sept 14, 2022 22:34:34 GMT -6
In theory, today there might be some technical wizardry that could be done to allow a translator to relay a primary on the same frequency using HD and very tight emissions masks, but I'm not sure it would work. On the translator receiving end you put an tight mask blocking out the analog portion of the incoming signal and tuning in the digital HD signal. On the translators output you put a mask over the outer portion of where an analog only signal would be but would be cut off if it were running digital. I'm not sure that made sense and someone with more engineering expertise than me would know better if it could be done. In any case it doesn't matter. Even if it could be done technically, it wouldn't be legal. A non-fill-in commercial translator can't rebroadcast a commonly owned primary station. Simmons got in trouble for that back when 100.7 was up in Brigham City and being relayed through 103.1 Salt Lake. They had a 100.7 translator in Utah County that picked up the 103.1 signal. The FCC ended that.
A network affiliate (sports or otherwise) still sells ad time locally. There might be some ads that would run on all the stations, but the affiliate has to make money somewhere. It would be possible for the network to buy an entire block of time (a la brokered time) and run all the programming including spots themselves, but I can't recall hearing of that being done.
|
|
|
|
Post by radiowyoming on Oct 5, 2022 20:02:49 GMT -6
CA was saying a "superstation" would be hard to sell ads on (the idea of someone in Logan hearing ads for a business in Provo etc.). I guess that's why I was thinking of a sports format. The Utah Jazz have radio affiliates all over the state and BYU does too I believe. I don't know if the Utes or any of the other teams do but I would imagine that there would be interest all over the state for a sports format. And you have businesses that have locations from Provo to Logan. Maybe this concept would have made more sense 20 years ago before online streaming became a thing. Thank you for all the information, everyone. It's fascinating to hear about what other groups have done.
Not if you had a good sales team
for the longest time, the massive 97.5 50kw FM in Dover, NH along the sea coast was simulcast on the big 103.7 atop mount washington, Nh...... when they woudl take a commercial break, seperate spots would be fired off for each market..... music runs on one computer and each signal has its on comptuer for ads.
Not hard to set up or keep running, instead of being live live, you voicetrack in the moment, 5 mins ahead of time, so no timing out needs to be done.. that can get messy!
|
|
|
|
Post by CAwasinNJ on Oct 7, 2022 13:56:10 GMT -6
The technical aspect is simple. Even a single computer with multiple audio outputs would work. I also don't see why voicetracking would be necessary, though I don't think it's a problem to do it that way. Just make sure the breaks are all the same length using PSA's or bonuses for padding as needed.
The selling is a different matter. Logan is a completely different market from the Wasatch Front, with different needs, different mindsets, different options, etc. Can it be done? Sure, but what works in a medium market like Salt Lake isn't necessarily going to work in a small market like Logan. It would really be like selling a completely different station that happens to have the same format. And while we're on the subject, there's also the issue of content like DJ patter. Events in one area are going to get a shrug from listeners 100 miles away. The more I think about it, the worse the idea seems.
|
|
