Is iHeart pushing listeners away from traditional radio?

[bonnevillemariner]

If you listen to any of the local iheart-owned talkers, you're aware of the recent (I began to notice it about a year ago) spate of ads promoting the company's podcasts. I'm not in the industry; I'm a long time radio enthusiast and amateur operator, so maybe there is some practical explanation to all of this...

First they started pushing their app as a primary listening source, then they started pushing their podcasts (which, as a listener of same podcasts, I can tell you are not even in the ballpark with the these stations' programming, content-wise). Now they're playing the actual podcasts on-air instead of regular programming.

I guess I understand this in the business sense. Over-the-air radio is seen as an increasingly irrelevant medium. It is very clear to me that iHeart wants to keep their listeners as traditional radio wanes, and are thus transitioning us to podcasts via the app.

Am I wrong about this? How do those of you in the industry feel about this forced transition?

[henry]

Absolutely. And intentionally.

They know the transmitters are dead weight. Depreciating asset with lots of debt. Aging audience. Lower AQHs. I suspect in a not-too-distant year (maybe 2030?) they'll do another bankruptcy/restructure and jettison most (85%?) of the unprofitable sticks.

I knew FM was in trouble when my 66-year-old mother, on her own with no assistance from anyone, downloaded iHeart to listen to The Blaze directly. She doesn't bother with KNRS anymore at all (the car is set to 94.1 for when she don't want to bother bluetooth pairing her phone). Now she's discovering that other podcasting apps let her skip commercials. Talk radio's day of reckoning has arrived. Now the slooooooooooow bleed of talk over the next 20 years as the audience ages away. And iHeart sits pretty because they control the ad sales for millions of downloads each hour, regardless of the app.

Radio (as an artform) didn't die. It moved. YouTube is the new "morning show." TikTok is new the goofy afternoon DJ. Talk radio are podcasts. The only thing missing is the hot-rockin' flame throwin' motormouth CHR DJ, weaving in and out of Top 40 records with jingles and sharp imaging. I fear *that* artform may be lost forever.

[CAwasinNJ]

To rebut henry I'll point out that a recent study showed millennials are turning to broadcast radio to discover new music.

Broadcast radio is changing, but it is not going extinct. As I've pointed out many times, cellular bandwidth simply can't handle the load. Add to that ease of use, how cheap and ubiquitous it is and so on and you get something that isn't going away. The "experts" also said radio was extinct when another invention called television came along. That was 70 years ago. I heard the same thing with satellite radio and iPods 15 years ago. Will broadcast radio evolve? Yes. Will it lose some listeners? Likely. Will it go away? I highly doubt it.

[levoix]

I think full service, personality driven community radio stations are needed now more than ever. Syndication, voice tracking and generic brands are diluting the real power of radio, which is to serve its local community.

But to get back to the original post about podcasts, they're just another place to run ads. Anyone who thinks radio groups are in the business of programming, not sales, is sadly mistaken. Just like local TV stations that add an extra hour of news. It's not actually for the news, it's a place to run more political ads.

[bonnevillemariner]

After a few days with zero responses, I thought I was going crazy! A couple follow up thoughts:

Aug 19, 2020 4:56:08 GMT -6 CAwasinNJ said:

To rebut henry I'll point out that a recent study showed millennials are turning to broadcast radio to discover new music.

As a millennial myself, I find that notion absurd. Additionally, I teach high school IT courses, including network communications and amateur radio. I know these kids aren't millennials, but I always ask them what their favorite radio station is as a starting point for our units on radio. Most of them can't point to a recent experience where they were aware that they were listening to over-the-air radio. And in 5 years of teaching these courses, I have yet to find any student that is familiar enough with the FM dial that they could identify a station they like. They have no idea the AM dial even exists. Millennials might be listening, but Gen Z sure isn't.

Aug 19, 2020 4:56:08 GMT -6 CAwasinNJ said:

The "experts" also said radio was extinct when another invention called television came along. That was 70 years ago. I heard the same thing with satellite radio and iPods 15 years ago.

Not dissing you, CA, but if I had a quarter for every time I heard this...

Radio and TV shared the same one-to-many broadcast model, but the context was different. There are certain contexts (running/biking/driving/shopping) where video entertainment is not practical or appropriate. TV was never going to kill radio. Satellite radio shares the same one-to-many model, but its paid subscription model doomed it as a legit competitor. Satellite was never going to kill radio.

Now iPods... I think they were the first tech that actually landed a blow, because it was the first deviation from the one-to-many broadcast model that was actually viable in the portable sphere (cassette was already dead, CD was never a viable portable medium). There was a quick (and in my opinion, irreversible) transition from live to on-demand, from KSFI chooses for me to listen to, to personally curated playlists. Streaming was another huge blow because it eliminated the need to download and transfer files. With increased cell bandwidth, broader cell coverage and the ubiquity of wifi, streaming via smartphone can finally approximate the experience of radio. Add podcasts-- and radio stations actively pushing their listeners away to apps and podcasts-- and traditional broadcast radio is on its death bed.

[amanuensis]

As I posted in a different thread, the only time I listen to over-the-air radio is when I am in my car. (My car doesn't have blue tooth syncing, but my wife's car does.) At our house, we all stream from cable-fed wifi to our various devices and smart speakers.

My Gen-Z daughter is seventeen and totally listens to streaming media. Bonneville, she does know that the AM band exists, but only because I switch to it sometimes to tease her when we are in my car together. I describe it to her as the ghetto neighborhood, where all the weird stuff is, like unhinged conspiracy theorists, Chinese propaganda, and Hare Krisna music.

[bonnevillemariner]

I will say that my own radio listening has increased since the pandemic, but it's only one station: KSL. KSL seems to be the only local station that seized on the opportunity the pandemic provided-- the need for timely local news.

I'm a podcast guy. I like to listen to what I want to listen to, when I want to listen to it. Now that I've made that transition, I can't imagine a scenario where I'd tune mid-program into spoken word entertainment from a radio station, be it over-the-air or via app. For music, I discover via Spotify and curate my own playlists from there. I scan the ham bands more frequently than I touch regular radio.

But...

KSL has wisely capitalized on radio's inherent strengths. No iHeart podcast is going to update me on Utah coronavirus numbers or cover the pressers. In addition to traffic and weather-- arguably the only advantages radio has left over other media-- KSL provides relevant coverage and discussion. I've listened to KSL more since March than I have in the last decade.

(Now whether KSL's content is any good or not, that's another discussion)

Traditional radio will survive, and even thrive, as long it provides something valuable that can't be found anywhere else. Maybe the iHeart cookie cutters have realized they have nothing left to offer that can't be more conveniently accessed elsewhere. KSL happens to be hyper-local. I'd be interested in seeing what kind of ratings boost they've had during the pandemic.

[amanuensis]

I agree with you about the importance of local content. So why don't radio stations ever play records by local bands that might be on the cusp of hitting it big. Or invite them into the studio for a live performance? (KSFI and KSL used to do a little of this at Christmas time.)

In the absence of such content, I have no reason to listen to, say KODJ, over any other station anywhere in the world with a similar format. Or a streaming service. Right now, I am listening to a stream from Music Choice, that I get from my Comcast subscription at no additional cost.
webplayer.musicchoice.com/#channel/9/easy-listening

[David]

One thing to keep in mind about streaming and internet service is that outside of the Wasatch Front, much of Utah is rural with limited or no cell coverage. For example, Grouse Creek just got cell service in 2016, and it took almost five years for the Utah state government to convince a wireless provider to build a cell tower in such a remote location. Moreover, there's always going to be cities and towns that don't have a large enough population base to make it profitable for Xfinity, CenturyLink, and other ISP's to provide the infrastructure for high speed internet. In those areas, terrestrial radio and TV broadcasting may be the only option available for access to local information. And good luck accessing the internet or using your cell phone during a long term power outage or a major disaster like an earthquake. The batteries in most cell towers can only provide backup power for a couple of hours at most. Some East Coast residents who were affected by the recent hurricane were still without power a week after the storm hit. I still believe there's a place for terrestrial radio broadcasting in the 21st century, albeit in a reduced capacity.

[bonnevillemariner]

David, that's certainly one thing radio has that other media don't, which will ensure its survival longer in rural areas. Unless radio stations are willing to do things like amanuensis mentions above, they're done for. I tuned into KNRS on my lunch break today. During the course of 15 minutes I heard two podcast trailers and an ad for another. Aside from the ED and divorce ads, KNRS is a glorified preview channel for the iHeart app. Like the default TV channel in hotel rooms and that preview channel on XM. It's there just to pipe listeners elsewhere. Not worth my time. I'll keep listening to KSL, because even if the majority of their programming sucks, they're doing this right.

[CAwasinNJ]

It should be pointed out that the view of those who participate here isn't necessarily the same as the general population. We are enthusiasts. "Normals" often don't have that mindset.

As for the "is broadcast radio dying", we've had this discussion before and no doubt will again and again. I'll just refer you to everything I said in this thread.
talkingutahradio.proboards.com/thread/1842/streaming-threat-radio
It's still true.

[henry]

Aug 19, 2020 4:56:08 GMT -6 CAwasinNJ said:

To rebut henry I'll point out that a recent study showed millennials are turning to broadcast radio to discover new music.

No offense to the study's authors, but that's bull crap. As much as newspapers claimed 2-3 people read their dead trees (to boost circulation figures).

I'm 35. I'm a fanatic about radio. And even I probably am down to less than 20% in-car FM time now. I plug the phone in to charge and Android Auto instantly launches my podcast.

So I'm living here in SoCal and I ask my peers about shows on KFI or DJs on Alt 98.7 or KIIS FM. My jaw dropped when a buddy and his wife, who grew up in L.A. wanted to know if Rick Dees was still on KIIS. THAT is how far gone the industry is. The only reason it doesn't look so bad is because of how much inertia the industry has. Listeners absent-mindedly tune in for the background noise. Agencies absent-mindedly make their buys. Spots absent-mindedly run in the background.

There's no creativity or passion left. Corporate raiders stripped it out in 2001. And 2008. And every year since then. And even more so this year. Radio will quietly chug away as background noise for another 20 years, becoming less relevant each year -- until one day major institutions will suddenly disappear. You'll tune to 95.5 in NYC and find it running K-LOVE Oh wait, that already happened!

[bonnevillemariner]

Aug 20, 2020 2:21:09 GMT -6 CAwasinNJ said:

As for the "is broadcast radio dying", we've had this discussion before and no doubt will again and again. I'll just refer you to everything I said in this thread.
talkingutahradio.proboards.com/thread/1842/streaming-threat-radio
It's still true.

I appreciate your points in that thread. We will have to agree to disagree. Just because radio "reaches" most of us doesn't mean it's still a vital-- or even viable-- medium today. Even if I concede to most of what you said in that thread, we've reached a pivot point where the owners switched from a protective mindset to "let's put 'er down and move on" mindset. I know I'm talking specifically about talk radio here, but When a good chunk of your content is actively pushing listeners away from the medium, that medium isn't long for this world. I feel bad for the engineers and other staff who hear their own bosses killing their jobs on a daily basis over their own airwaves.

[bonnevillemariner]

Aug 20, 2020 2:46:29 GMT -6 henry said:

My jaw dropped when a buddy and his wife, who grew up in L.A. wanted to know if Rick Dees was still on KIIS.

Wait, Rick Dees isn't still on KIIS?!?

[CAwasinNJ]

Aug 20, 2020 8:15:04 GMT -6 bonnevillemariner said:

I appreciate your points in that thread. We will have to agree to disagree. Just because radio "reaches" most of us doesn't mean it's still a vital-- or even viable-- medium today. Even if I concede to most of what you said in that thread, we've reached a pivot point where the owners switched from a protective mindset to "let's put 'er down and move on" mindset. I know I'm talking specifically about talk radio here, but When a good chunk of your content is actively pushing listeners away from the medium, that medium isn't long for this world. I feel bad for the engineers and other staff who hear their own bosses killing their jobs on a daily basis over their own airwaves.

Well now, hang on a minute. If you're referring specifically to talk radio (and I'm going to take that to mean political conservative talk radio) then yes I agree it's dying. Some might argue that it's already dead. Guys like Limbaugh and Hannity have been reading the same script for decades and it's worn out. There is some hope. You should read about John Catsimatidis and what he's doing at WABC in New York. He's a radio guy, not a suit, and he has a lot of money that he's willing to spend to make the station not just another cookie cutter. Whether you agree with him or not, or whether you like him or not, he's shaking up a very stale station. There's a really long discussion about him at the NY Radio Message Board (nyrmb.com)