That Demos Thread

[CAwasinNJ]

Like the swallows returning to Capistrano this is the topic that keeps happening. This time I'm going to try it a little differently and we'll see what happens. Those who've already groked it can just move on. For the rest, maybe we can help. After all this topic is behind a lot of the rest of what we talk about here.

In the KDYL thread David said:

May 16, 2021 13:33:54 GMT -6 David said:

And yes, I know that the demographics for AM radio in general, and oldies/adult standards formats in particular, aren't attractive to advertisers. I've heard that explanation dozens of times from lots of different people who work in the broadcasting industry. It still doesn't explain why radio broadcasters mostly ignore those who are over 50, when they're the generation that was raised on radio and are hungry for a station or format that caters to their age group. Contrary to popular belief, not all of us who are over 50 are set in our ways and have one foot in the grave.

David, you said the explanation doesn't explain why radio ignores 50+. What is it about the explanation that doesn't explain it for you?

[David]

This article from Inside Radio explains it better than I can, CA. When I was in the broadcasting program at Weber State in the early 1990's, I was taught that to have a successful radio station, one needs to find a format hole and fill it. Granted, technology has changed a lot in 20 years, but what I don't understand is why radio keeps ignoring the older demos like myself. Look at KOOL 105.5 for example. They're on a 250 watt translator that barely covers the Salt Lake metro, and they've already managed to build an audience (myself included) in six months. Why radio continues to ignore those over 50 makes no sense to me, especially given the ever increasing numbers and growing spending power of seniors. How long are the 20 and 30 something programmers going be allowed to recycle the same old formats over and over again before they wake up and realize that there's a huge potential audience of radio listeners just waiting for someone to program a station which doesn't try to cater exclusively to the 18-49 or 25-54 audience? For radio programmers to continue to throw up their hands and say "That's the way we've always done it!" means missed opportunities, IMO. It's an outmoded way of doing business. As someone once said, "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results."

www.insideradio.com/free/growing-in-size-bursting-with-spending-power-55-demo-is-ready-for-its-close-up/article_eb7d06c6-a267-11eb-a265-07d0569696db.html

[CAwasinNJ]

OK. Nobody is denying anything you said or what's in that article. The problem is that all those arguments are completely irrelevant. The trap that I think a lot of people fall into is thinking that when an advertiser buys time on a radio station what they buy is the listeners of that station. They aren't. They are buying the listeners of that station who are potential customers. All the purchasing power in the world isn't going to make a difference if that listener doesn't care about what you're trying to sell.

Let's try an example of a well-known market: beer. For this example we have 2 difference potential customers. One is 25 years old, the other is 55. Both drink beer often. The 25yo has only been buying beer (legally) for 4 years. He tries different beers and sees what he likes. The 55yo did all that decades ago and has figured out what he likes. Let's say he likes Heineken. What are the odds that the millionth commercial he hears for Budweiser is going to change his mind? Possible, but very unlikely. On the other hand the 25yo is still in that experimental stage and is more likely to say "That sounds cool, I'll try that." The ad dollars spent on the 55yo are wasted while the money spent on the 25yo is a good investment.

You were really close when you said "Contrary to popular belief, not all of us who are over 50 are set in our ways...." You're right, but having heard all those ads for all those years it doesn't influence older listeners as much as it used to. There are only so many ways to sell a product and they've heard them all. That's the heart of the matter.

Now the questions are, does that clear things up any and does anyone disagree with what I said?

[kenglish]

I like Heineken pretty well, but I like to try new things. Those clamato drinks are pretty good.

Seems like a 55+ format could sell pre-paid funerals, private ambulance services, home nursing. And, of course, Supplemental Medicare Insurance plans. Might even give my postman a chance to give up his back brace.
Hey! Back braces are another potential advertiser.
😉

[amanuensis]

If a SLC broadcaster decides to switch an existing radio station to. say, modern country, there will be quite a lot of competition out there. The broadcaster would have to spend a lot of advertising money in order to get noticed by listeners. And perhaps hire away a well-known DJ from a competitor in order to give listeners a reason to switch (or do big contests/give-aways/promotions, etc.)

On the other hand, if a SLC broadcaster wanted to do, say, Easy Listening, they would have the market completely to themselves. It might be a smaller demo, but they would own it. So any advertiser that wanted to speak to that demo would have to buy time on that particular station. And the costs to run the station would be a lot lower. Easy Listening rarely had DJs, so no one would be expecting them now. It could be completely automated, or programmed by a third-party source. People would learn of the station through word-of-mouth. (Yes, I do still like listening to a sub-genre of Easy listening -- instrumental covers of 60s-80s pop; I am listening to a stream of that right, since it helps me be productive as I work. Right now, Ronnie Aldrich's cover of Roger Whittakers's The Last Farewell.)

[David]

I'd like to add a few thoughts to what amanuensis and Ken have said. Let's take your example of beer marketing as an example, CA. Besides the obvious consumables like beer, soda, fast food, etc., there are dozens of different products and services to pitch to the 55+ plus age group. There are always new movie theaters, auto dealerships, restaurants, medical facilities, etc. opening up which need to advertise on the radio & TV. Most of the businesses I just mentioned have customers that aren't limited to just one age group. Moreover, now that the Covid-19 restrictions are being relaxed and vaccines are available, most seniors aren't going to be as reluctant to leave their homes and have a meal at a new restaurant, or go see a movie at the new theater in their neighborhood that just opened a few weeks ago. Look at the figures for the percentage of seniors who own their homes. Regardless of how bad the economy gets or whether there's a worldwide pandemic, there's always going to be a need for plumbers, electricians, contractors, and the like. There's going to be lots of advertising opportunities for these types of goods and services in the months ahead, and IMO it's ridiculous not to take a chance on those opportunities by targeting demos which radio has traditionally ignored.

To expand on what amanuensis said, these are my thoughts. I personally don't see the point in having another Spanish language, sports talk, or news/talk station on the AM (or FM, for that matter) band when there are already several of each "flavor" of those stations fighting for a piece of the pie. Why not try a different format that's not already being offered and see what happens? If it doesn't work out in a year or two, the owner(s) can always flip formats to something they think will be more profitable. With just an HD2 channel and a 250 watt translator, KOOL 105.5 already has higher ratings than a half dozen full power FM stations in the Salt Lake market, and several high power AM stations as well. I don't know if the jocks on KOOL are live or voice tracked, but it seems to me that the response to having Mark Waldi, Rob Bochard, and other well known DJ's on the radio again has been overwhelmingly positive, and so has the response to the music KOOL 105.5 is playing.

[CAwasinNJ]

Ken, you're right. And you see a LOT of that on the TV diginets that air decades old shows.

amanuensis, the size of the demo isn't the only consideration. That brings us to the second half of the problem. Because there's much less demand for the 55+ demo, the ad rates for such a station are less than a station with a younger demographic. Remember that radio is a business and it's all about making money. A 55+ station up near the top of the overall ratings might be making the same amount of money as a middle of the ratings station that has a much lower average age. A company trying that would have to hit a home run just to get a decent return. If they don't hit a home run the balance sheet is going to suffer.

David, it DOESN'T MATTER that you can pitch dozens of products to 55+. Many companies DON'T spend significant money on that demo because the advertising is MUCH LESS EFFECTIVE. Why would a company spend money if they aren't going to get anything from it? That's irresponsible. From there, see the previous paragraph.

Here's a non radio example. Every week or two I get a postcard ad in my snail mail from Chewy, the pet supply company. I don't own a pet. I haven't owned a pet for decades. The cost of printing and mailing that postcard is 100% wasted on me. Sure they can keep trying on the vague chance that I get a pet someday, but the return on that investment is going to be practically nil.

[amanuensis]

You are of course right, CA, that there would not be as much ad revenue coming in to a station targeted to a 55+ demo. My thought was that perhaps the lower cost of operating such a station (such as not needing DJs and promotions to lure youngsters away from their competitors) would largely offset the lower revenue, resulting in a bottom line that keeps the boss happy.

For an AM signal, how are you going to get a young listener anyway if you can't find an FM translator to simulcast with? As David said, there are already enough conservative talk and Spanish stations on AM to perhaps saturate those markets. You might as well try something different if you already have a station. I might not listen to the station off-of-the-air (because of low fidelity) but if I like the format I quite likely would spend time listening to a high-fidelity stream of it on Alexa. And thus still hear the advertisements.

[David]

(Sigh!) OK CA, I'll just agree to disagree with you on this subject. I still think it's a poor idea to put another Spanish language station on AM when there are already four on the band, and three Spanish language stations on FM in the Salt Lake market. Personally, I don't understand how all of those stations manage to stay on the air, but since it's not my money being spent to keep them afloat, I'd best shut up for now. However, it's going to be interesting to see what format KMRI will have, assuming Barry Wood and Jacob Hibbard finally succeed in putting 1550 back on the air. And FWIW, I get postcards in my snail mail almost daily from real estate agents who want to buy my house, and they always get promptly deposited in File 13. So there's another example of highly ineffective advertising that someone is wasting money on. 🙂

[CAwasinNJ]

David, you're not disagreeing with me. You're disagreeing with the advertising industry that has decades of experience in how to sell stuff. I don't like it either, but it is what it is.