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Post by CAwasinNJ on Feb 6, 2020 10:16:11 GMT -6
Yes, it's true. Salt Lake's 98.3 translator has been sold....to Canyon Media, owner of VFX.
When I first read the news I got excited. Has VFX ever had any meaningful presence in Salt Lake? I remember once they apparently showed up in the ratings though this was before PPMs and credit was given to KARB. I thought maybe there might be a change in format to something that might get ratings traction. It's not looking that way unless they're planning to feed it with something else. I know CVRG reads this board. Perhaps they'd like to comment?
It's interesting that the primary station is listed as K-Love's 107.5 KKLV. It would be necessary to feed the translator from somewhere that has the same coverage area that the translator does since an owner can't own their station's non fill in translator. Can someone with an HD radio check if VFX is on one of 107.5's subchannels?
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Terry
Silver Level Member
Posts: 488
Usual Listening Area: east Murray
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Post by Terry on Feb 6, 2020 16:56:48 GMT -6
107.5 does not have any digital sub channels. Maybe they’re planning to start?
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Post by christopherjohn on Feb 6, 2020 19:13:04 GMT -6
107.5 doesn’t have a HD transmitter last time I checked. That would be a pretty pricy upgrade.
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Post by mtndew on Feb 7, 2020 20:12:41 GMT -6
I'm not surprised by that move, but it does seem like kind of an odd pairing, if nothing else. An out-of-town CHR commercial station riding alongside the (non-com?) K-Love format. VFX used to do some promotions in Salt Lake about a decade ago. I remember they used to broadcast a live audio feed from one of the clubs for one of their shows, on Saturday nights if I remember right.
I wonder how much work it would take to implement HD on KKLV being on Farnsworth. I've never been there, but I know it has a huge combiner network. I also wonder if the 98.3 translator would need to pick up the HD-2 off air to rebroadcast it or could it be STL fed? It seems like with FM translators of AM stations they will allow an STL feed but I'm not sure about HD Radio subchannels to analog translators.
A google search came up with $17,000 for the price, but no details on when it consummates. It should be interesting to see how it unfolds.
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Post by CAwasinNJ on Feb 8, 2020 8:21:22 GMT -6
I'm pretty sure EMF has leased out their translators in the past in other markets, so it isn't a big stretch to think they'd lease out a subchannel. It doesn't even have to be a high bitrate since the translator can be fed any way they want as long as it's the same programming as the HD channel. As far as I know that's true of any fill-in translator regardless of band or primary.
The purchase price is indeed $17,000 per the filed contract. That seems really low to me, but I'm not sure what the relationship between the stations has been over the years. A couple of other things just sprang into my mind. KKLV is a non-commercial station and converting it to a commercial operation to host a commercial station on a subchannel (assuming that's the plan) I think would be a big problem for EMF. Add to that the fact that co-channel KADQ is owned by Frandsen Media. Now I'm wondering if buying K252DI is providing a cash out to Brent Larson before KADQ files to become a new Humpy rimshot. It's also interesting that the K252DI contract was signed back in August but not filed until now. They may have needed to find a willing station to be listed as the primary before the paperwork could be filed.
The more I think about it the more I think there's more here than meets the eye.
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Post by mtndew on Feb 10, 2020 0:26:16 GMT -6
It should be interesting since they must have something ready to light up soon, unless there is a grace period with the change of ownership. I was thinking KNYN was the one with a shot at a the rimshot as part of the infamous docket mess, but I'm probably wrong. That station shows a frequency change from 99.1 to 103.9 and KGNT has a CP to switch to 99.1 in the Cache Valley in Hyde Park near Smithfield. I was thinking it was 103.9 that could go to Humpy. But then KADQ is on 98.3 in Evanston, which adds to my confusion. If one of them is ready to build out at Humpy and the 5 boosters get built and come online, they could feed the 98.3 SLC translator on their own HD2 fairly easily, I suppose.
I did read (skim) through that infamous Docket a while back, and there were so many players who needed to do their part for others to get what they wanted or to even start their part of the deal. It seemed that some dropped the ball and there were loads of stations in multiple states and some epic, "what could go wrong" FCC red tape bad decision making if ever there was any. Is it going to actually happen now? I suppose that is the big question. If so, that could be exciting.
The other thing I was wondering, was if they could put 98.3 KADQ on an HD3 of the new station, and since the FCC shamelessly promotes and allows most anything on the HD band to be transmitted on an analog translator, would it be permissible to put KADQ Evanston on the 98.3 Salt Lake translator on the same frequency? It's not that often that new stations come online in SLC, usually the talk is about changes to existing stations, so I can't help but speculate a bit here.
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Post by mtndew on Feb 10, 2020 5:49:05 GMT -6
Now I see I must have had it backwards. The KNYN/KGNT frequency swaps threw me off. I found the information once but I can't find it now. If KADQ goes to Humpy at 98.3 then the translator wouldn't be needed, and KKLV would just keep it on air for now while they build that out. That makes sense. The 98.3 VFX translator at the booster site in Tremonton might still add some coverage in that area. I wasn't sure if there were 4 or 5 boosters on the rimshots. It seems like Provo, South Salt Lake, North Salt Lake, Ogden and maybe Park City? It could be any format on KADQ so it would be a new Salt Lake station. I can't imagine VFX would originate in Salt Lake and still broadcast in Cache Valley though, so I'm curious how it will turn out.
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Post by CAwasinNJ on Feb 11, 2020 4:11:13 GMT -6
I've never heard of anything at the FCC that gets an automatic grace period. Doesn't make sense. FCC approval will probably take at least a few months. After that the closing still needs to happen. The contract states that the FCC filing was to happen within 10 business days of the execution of the agreement. That was dated Aug 22, 2019 and the filing wasn't until Feb 5. Not sure what happened there. It also says that closing is to happen within 10 business days of the FCC approval becoming final if not sooner, and I don't know if that might also be delayed. I have the feeling that neither side is likely to be too anxious about strictly enforcing the terms of the contract so it might be some time before they have to worry. When the transfer of control does happen there are still options. The easiest would be to just switch the input frequency to KKLV's analog and run that as you said. They could also file for a silent STA and that shouldn't be a problem to grant if the intended program source isn't available. If the net goal of all this is to make KADQ a rimshot, K252DI just needs to be on the books long enough for KADQ's upgrade to be approved (so nobody else can grab the frequency) and then they can turn in the license and be done with it. Something similar happened with 103.1 in the early 2000's. As for docket mess....the real mess (IMHO) was 05-243 which affected everything from 105.1 to 107.9 and then some. That one was a nightmare. The one you're talking about is 02-290 which is tame by comparison. I don't think we really need to get into the weeds there. Remember that it was approved back in 2004. Any construction permits filed back then are long expired. Upgrading KADQ should be a simple one-step process if they really want a new rimshot. Forgetting about the legal issues for a moment, if K252DI were to be fed by KADQ it would have to be fed off the air. It might vaguely be possible with an extremely directional receive antenna and an equally extreme broadcast pattern. I highly doubt it's feasible. I was just thinking about something that I had considered and dismissed for another thread. What about Canyon Media acquiring KDYL and that becoming the primary? I dismissed it because I figured if K252DI hadn't given up relaying VFX by now they probably wouldn't. Maybe it's possible. And I think I hear chuckling from the direction of Logan.....
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Post by mtndew on Feb 11, 2020 17:27:00 GMT -6
I was probably reading too much in to the translator being related to any Humpy plans (should've heeded the "don't get too excited" in the title). It would definitely be something if a new station was built out that could broadcast along the Wasatch Front. The FCC has a tool somewhere where you can select a station class and enter transmitter site coordinates, and see which potential frequencies over which you could broadcast and not interfere. So even in a small town with 6 or 8 listenable stations and a large amount of terrain shielding, you would think you have all that dial space to put your new station (that you would never be able to afford anyway if you don't have very deep pockets). But if there are a few decent sized towns within 60 miles or even more, there usually are no available frequencies for even a lower powered FM station because of the protections afforded to out-of-town frequencies. So it's surprising there is even a possibility in Salt Lake. Even if I didn't like the programming I am all for more variety.
The KDYL idea doesn't sound so bad, actually!
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Post by drpepper on Feb 12, 2020 1:14:11 GMT -6
I don't believe KKLV would have to convert to a noncom, EMF and iheart have leased subchannels and translators from each other for some time now. as far as the boosters for the Humpy stations, i believe there is some variation; E.G. KZNS has a booster in Park City while the others don't IIRC, but esentially the booster network consists of Ogden, Bountiful, Salt Lake, Provo and one mor i believe. Which brings a few questions from me. Does anyone from Alpha read this board? The feed for KDUT andKBMG in Salt Lake has had issues for quite a while now. Also, for probably 3 years now, actually longer, KZNSfm is really static'y basicly from Murray Fashionplace area and going any direction from that point basicly until Cedar Hills or close to there. I've just not seen mention anywhere of either of those things, so curious if anyone knew what was going on in either of those cases?
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Post by CAwasinNJ on Feb 12, 2020 2:38:26 GMT -6
KKLV already is a non-comm and has been for 10 years since EMF bought it. Don't get me started on that filing...
The specifics for rimshots can vary somewhat depending on what the licensee wants, but there are factors of available power and available transmitter sites that limit what the licensee can do. The abstract is, rimshots are never going to have as good a signal as the full market stations from Farnsworth. If you want to get into more specifics that would need a separate thread.
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Post by drpepper on Feb 13, 2020 1:48:50 GMT -6
I had to go read my post after reading your reply. What i meant to say was i don't think KKLV would have to convert er i mean, revert back to a commercial status. Now i'm curious about that filing.
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Post by CAwasinNJ on Feb 14, 2020 7:52:04 GMT -6
If KKLV were to start running VFX on a subchannel I'm sure it would require the station have a commercial license, unless VFX also goes non-commercial which is ridiculous. If KKLV stays as is only running K-Love then it wouldn't have to change.
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Post by drpepper on Feb 14, 2020 21:23:51 GMT -6
If that were true then wouldn't KODJ have had to go noncom for a time? Their HD2 had air1 i believe it was for almost a year IIRC. That was right after smooth jazz went away for the last time. Just up the road in the Pocatello market KQPI HD4 was broadcasting some sort of worship programming which sounded similar to BBN. Don't know if they're still doing that however, and just occurred to me that KQPI and KVFX are owned by the same parent company. Up there it's Sandhill Media. Also seems possible that EMF might lease the translator to relay air1 or something else.
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dspete
Silver Level Member
Listening to 102.5 KBBL with Troy McClure
Posts: 296
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Post by dspete on Feb 15, 2020 9:59:31 GMT -6
Yes, it's true. Salt Lake's 98.3 translator has been sold....to Canyon Media, owner of VFX. ? Canyon Media? Did they buy out Cache Valley Media? I just know Canyon Media in St.George area
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