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Post by David on Oct 31, 2019 19:54:01 GMT -6
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fmdj1
Bronze Level Member
Posts: 143
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Post by fmdj1 on Oct 31, 2019 22:39:20 GMT -6
I'd be curious to know what the thoughts are on if there is room for any other Alternative mix in the area. With both the Mountain's AAA format and now 101.9's Alternative format gone, that still leaves two stations doing some form of Alternative, X96 and the Wave. Is that enough, too much, or too little? In Las Vegas, where I was before, there was only one Alt station for a very similarly sized market (though clearly demographically very different). So could another Alt station work commercially, maybe with a AAA influence?
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Post by David on Oct 31, 2019 23:13:33 GMT -6
I've lived in Utah since 1987, and I don't recall more than two alternative stations having any degree of success in the Salt Lake market. The original incarnation of KJQN on 95.5 tried to compete with X96 for awhile after all the KJQ jocks were either fired or quit in the early 1990's, but that didn't last for more than a year or two. The End (KENZ) at 107.5 (and later 101.9) did OK against KXRK for a few years, but by 2007 they were more or less finished. KSQN's ratings have been declining in the past few books, so I can't believe that another alternative station in the Salt Lake market would have much chance of succeeding.
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Post by CAwasinNJ on Nov 1, 2019 3:53:21 GMT -6
I wouldn't call X96 and The Wave competitors myself. (And P.S. The Wave has oscillated quite a bit, so I wouldn't be too concerned about the current downward trend.) Regardless, Citadel/Cumulus has tried and ultimately failed with alternative THREE TIMES in the last 10 years. At the point when The End upgraded from 107.5 to 101.9 it was going reasonably well. That started to fall apart around 2009-2010 and 101.9 was flipped to a 90's format. That didn't work and they brought back The End for round two. That lasted a couple of years before we got Classic Hits/Trax which lasted a year. Then alternative came back in 2015 with the move of Alt 94.9 to start round three. I didn't understand it in 2015 and I still don't. If something doesn't work you don't keep trying it!
What makes this even more goofy (if that's possible) is that there is what appears to me to be a non-temporary simulcast in place. There is an enormous amount of overlap between the two signals. It doesn't feel like a coincidence that this happened right after the FCC announced a review of the rules that currently prohibit stations in the same market on the same band from running more than 25% of the same programming. The rule hasn't changed yet so I'm not sure how they can do what they're doing. Who knows. It still seems like a waste to me. What 94.9 gives you that 101.9 doesn't is a somewhat stronger signal in the Provo area plus coverage down toward the Juab and Sanpete Counties area that they don't sell to anyway. The shadow over Provo could be compensated for by a booster if they really cared, but so far I don't think anyone has even bothered. The combined ratings of the two stations running separate programming was pretty good. Combined they are going to get much less. The only way I see that this makes sense is if Cumulus is playing a really long game and the goal is to simulcast for 3-6 months before pulling the plug on the 94.9 side. Really pounding the idea that Power is on both frequencies into people's heads would almost eliminate losing listeners when it's only available on the 101.9 frequency. I don't know if that's what they're thinking, but I can't think of another way this works.
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Post by Timmy on Nov 1, 2019 8:21:43 GMT -6
Make 94.9 LiteAC and 101.9 Power CHR... Done.
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Post by drpepper on Nov 2, 2019 9:59:30 GMT -6
at fmdj1; imo a 2,000s alternative station would do well potentially on one of those signals marketed to the utah county area. Having lived there for 4 years during college, i really do think it would and could work from a music standpoint, and i do think it could be sold successfully as well. Theres a number of ways to do it, but would be immaged mor like an AAA rather than say KXTE since you mentioned Vegas. Similar to KNRK WXPN something like that. It could be a lot of fun to program.
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fmdj1
Bronze Level Member
Posts: 143
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Post by fmdj1 on Nov 2, 2019 18:51:25 GMT -6
at fmdj1; imo a 2,000s alternative station would do well potentially on one of those signals marketed to the utah county area. Having lived there for 4 years during college, i really do think it would and could work from a music standpoint, and i do think it could be sold successfully as well. Theres a number of ways to do it, but would be immaged mor like an AAA rather than say KXTE since you mentioned Vegas. Similar to KNRK WXPN something like that. It could be a lot of fun to program. It could be very fun to program. The thing is, with the exception of the short-lived 90's alternative format, 107.5/101.9 never did much to differentiate from X96 and, like CAwasinNJ indicated, I don't think there is enough room for 2 alternatives playing the same thing. But X96 obviously thinks the classic alternative has enough pull to program their HD2 with it. Possibly a AAA/Classic Alternative mix could work, though it would take some work. The hard thing about it is looking at the many failures of Citadel/Cumulus mentioned above and even the KJQ revival that died. It would probably take a market study of Utah County to figure out just what would play there. The beauty of targeting that area instead of Salt Lake is it is it has enough differences from Salt Lake that one could potentially get a format that would work without needing to pull in Salt Lake listeners.
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Post by levoix on Nov 3, 2019 9:42:04 GMT -6
I think the question is WHAT is alternative music? (as a radio format today)
Look at KYSR in Los Angeles, and their recently played songs include artists that could be found on any other station in the market:
The 1975 - Somebody Else Foo Fighters - Everlong The Killers - Smile Like You Mean It Billie Eilish - bury a friend SHAED - Trampoline Foster The People - Pumped Up Kicks Post Malone - Allergic
Back in the 2000s, the format was a lot more clear and narrow. In fact, the term "alternative" means going against the mainstream. But today that doesn't really apply.
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Post by amanuensis on Nov 3, 2019 12:46:04 GMT -6
I think a station could be successful programming 70s rock, broadly interpreted to include country crossover and folk. Slade, Juice Newton, Bread, Neil Diamond, Moody Blues, 3 Dog Night, Neil Young, John Denver, Billy Joel, etc.
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Post by CAwasinNJ on Nov 4, 2019 1:10:54 GMT -6
I think we should make sure we're not missing the forest for the trees. There are two issues at play. Will there be a new format for 94.9 or not, and then if yes what should the format be? The question of possible formats is always valid since not every station is going to be successful and some will eventually be looking to flip to something else. That being said, the scarce evidence (branding with both frequencies both on air and in the new logo) seems to suggest that this is as permanent a change as anything in radio ever is. I disagree with it, but obviously I don't get a vote. So, do you think this is permanent or temporary?
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henry
Silver Level Member
Posts: 316
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Post by henry on Nov 4, 2019 21:52:19 GMT -6
I wouldn't hold KYSR up as a great example of Alternative. The format is really struggling nationally. Alt 98.7 is pretty much the "I'm white and mostly listen to Spotify, but hey, The Woody Show is kinda funny" station.
I predict KFI will gobble up 98.7 sometime in the 2020s decade. KYSR's demo (me; male, white, college educated, mid-30s) is becoming KFI's demo. And I'm listening to KFI more and more (and KYSR less and less) as I age. A half decade ago, KFI really leaned in on local Los Angeles talk (and away from national conservative heads) and it's been really paying off IMHO.
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Post by drpepper on Nov 4, 2019 23:19:09 GMT -6
as much as it didn't seemingly make sense to keep shoving "the end" down the throats of Salt lake radio listeners, i can't imagine they'd keep simulcasting Power on both frequencies. Wouldn't do light AC imo, as that would cannibalize the progress KBEE has made. That said, theres nothing that comes to mind as a "slam dunk" gaping huge hole in the market format wise. Not that every genre is covered necessarily, but no one is crying out for a specific format that i've heard anyway. What i mean by that is radio doesn't come up in the office chatter, random conversations in the grocery store i pass by etc. Now having written all that, maybe light AC is the way to go. Build a wall of AC between that and KBEE. Let's just take last month's ratings for KHTB and KBEE with this question in mind. Can Cumulus get higher than 5.2 consistently between these 2 stations if they go with Light AC on KHTB and AC on KBEE? if that worked, and power keeps trending upward, that could be a huge longterm win for Cumulus i think.
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Post by David on Nov 5, 2019 0:12:14 GMT -6
I know there's some people who really miss the smooth jazz format The Breeze 97.9 used to air, so that may be one possibility for a new format. I'd suggest a blend of smooth jazz and lite AC would be best for a broader appeal. Whatever Cumulus decides to do format wise, I don't think it could draw worse ratings than the multiple alternative formats they've tried over the years.
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Post by drpepper on Nov 5, 2019 0:23:48 GMT -6
At fmdj1, I don't think we're coming at this from much different angles. My point isn't to play the same thing as X96, but to have less of a modern rock sound. X96 will play songs from Tool, Disturbed, Shevell, where the outter limits if you will, of the station i envision stops with songs from Paramore, Panic at the disco and Weezer. heres a random group of songs that came to mind when i saw your reply. FWIW, i don't even like all these songs, 2 i'll suggest while popular i personally don't care for. Coin Talk to much Bon Iver Skinny Love Florence + the Machine; What kind of Man Chvrches; Empty Threat Radio Head Optimistic Metric breatheing Under Water Passenger; Holes Lorde Huron The night we met The Shins; Australia Tegan and Sara: Walking with a Ghost The National Lemon world Muse Time is running out Keane Crystal Ball Civil Twilight Fire escape She Wants revenge Tear you Apart Franz Ferdinand know You Guster Sattelite. Phoenix Laso the strokes 1251 Mute math Control Tame Impala Cause i'm a Man Two Door Cinema Club Once Shiny Toy Guns Rainy Monday Death Cab for Cutie passenger seat The Dandy warhols You Were the Last High Len Steal My Sunshine that group represents pretty accurately, a lot of what i heard while there. Not all of it by any means, point is only to say i heard lots of that in people's cars, at their apartments etc. And still do when i visit friends there. A good number of those songs are farely new as well so could be a nice mix of 2,000s and select new songs as well.
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fmdj1
Bronze Level Member
Posts: 143
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Post by fmdj1 on Nov 5, 2019 9:45:14 GMT -6
At drpepper, I don't disagree that there are some interesting possibilities there, though I think it would need both 90's and 2000's with a select mix of newer stuff to do well. Alt stations had their highest cumes in the 90s and I don't think they've ever gotten that again. It would just be a huge risk considering other Alt formats that have come and gone here including some classic alt mixes. Being a station programmer myself, of course my question is more than theoretical, so it certainly gives me something to chew on. At David, the 70's mix possibility is something that I've included in my mix on KWLO, though certainly there has been more of a 60's focus, mainly because both KSRP and KODJ have heavy enough 70's in their rotation that I don't want to duplicate too much. If they continue their upward trend (almost 50% of KODJ's playlist is now 80s), there may be room to include more 70's. Maybe someday I'll actually get the format up to SLC
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