Restrictions on streaming stations

[CAwasinNJ]

This is a fork of the topic Frank started at talkingutahradio.proboards.com/thread/2136/new-translator-freeport-approved-move

He was talking about the artist separation rules on streams. I understand that was true in the past. I've heard in recent years that at least specialty shows featuring one artist are being heard on streams. Is it possible those rules were fixed? I'm not even sure why they existed in the first place.

Another rule that I'm pretty sure is still in place is the union demand that commercials voiced by union talent have higher royalty rates than if it's only on broadcast stations. That's why so many commercials get substituted out on the stream and you get boring, often very repetitive commercials instead of what the on air listeners are getting. At least with that I see how we got here. Back years ago when streaming was getting started the union knew that broadcasters were overeager to launch these new services, so they figured they could take advantage of that and broadcasters would go along with it. They were wrong, but they can't back down now so we're stuck with crappy tune-out inducing commercials on the streams. For those of you who listen to streams a lot,do you run to that problem a lot and does it bother you?

[amanuensis]

I listen to StingRay streams all day sometimes. And I take my headphones off immediately when I hear "15 Minutes could save you ..." because I know it will not just be a GEICO ad, but one particular GEICO ad that I could recite from memory, I have heard it so often. It plays several times an hour.

[fmdj1]

Thanks for starting this thread, CA. I think it is a worthwhile subject, particularly because the influence it has on what over-the-air stations that also stream are required to do with their over-the-air programming in order to maintain their streaming license. I just checked SoundExchange and the rules are basically the same as I remember them:
-No more than 4 tracks by the same featured artist (or from a compilation album) may be transmitted to the same listener within a 3 hour period (and no more than 3 of those tracks may be transmitted consecutively).
-No more than 3 tracks from the same album may be transmitted to the same listener within a 3 hour period (and no more than 2 of those tracks may be transmitted consecutively).

Regarding why they do that, what I was told years ago was that they were afraid that people would stream entire albums or the best tracks in a catalog from an artist and people would just record it instead of buying the record. The reasoning was that the audio quality on a stream was high enough that people would be satisfied with that instead of purchasing the track. I don't know how accurate that is, but I know it was at least a fairly common belief among people in the radio industry that I talked to at the time.

[David]

IIRC, 103.5 The Arrow (KRSP-FM) used to air entire albums late at night, around 10:30-11:00. It was at least 20 years ago that they broadcast entire albums, and it might have been up to 25 years ago. That was probably long before online streaming became commonplace, however.

I wonder what KOOL 105.5 is going to put on their online stream this weekend if they can only air the all Beatles weekend on terrestrial radio?

[fmdj1]

Sept 2, 2021 14:00:58 GMT -6 David said:

IIRC, 103.5 The Arrow (KRSP-FM) used to air entire albums late at night, around 10:30-11:00. It was at least 20 years ago that they broadcast entire albums, and it might have been up to 25 years ago. That was probably long before online streaming became commonplace, however.

I wouldn't doubt it. I have heard other classic rock and oldies stations in various parts of the country do feature programs that would include long blocks from the same artist, which would include some cool B-tracks and other items that normally wouldn't get much airplay. In my opinion, the streaming rules really ruined that, which is upsetting because I felt like those types of programs did more to promote an artist and draw people to their other work than just playing a few select hit singles does. But it's not the first time the record industry has shot itself in the foot and certainly won't be the last.

[CAwasinNJ]

Good point Frank about being worried people would record the stream. I recall hearing about the same arguments being made back 50-60 years ago when music stations started to be a thing and then FM radio came along and so on. It's true that sometimes listeners taped songs off the radio. Some probably still do. Has it ever been a major problem? Somehow I doubt it. It also doesn't make sense why this is a requirement for streams alone. I might buy that analog FM is not as good quality as an internet stream, but what about digital? Theoretically the digital signal should be comparable to a purchased MP3, yet I'm not aware of any restrictions.

Speaking of The Beatles and long blocks, they have a long history of specialty shows featuring their music dating back to the 80's. By tuning into 3 different stations in and around New York City, you could hear Beatles music for 3-4 hours straight on Sunday mornings. I agree that checking the Kool stream this weekend should be interesting. Another one I should remember to check is WABC's Sunday night Sinatra show. That's 3 hours of Sinatra music and they do stream.

[fmdj1]

Sept 2, 2021 15:33:13 GMT -6 CAwasinNJ said:

Good point Frank about being worried people would record the stream. I recall hearing about the same arguments being made back 50-60 years ago when music stations started to be a thing and then FM radio came along and so on. It's true that sometimes listeners taped songs off the radio. Some probably still do. Has it ever been a major problem? Somehow I doubt it. It also doesn't make sense why this is a requirement for streams alone. I might buy that analog FM is not as good quality as an internet stream, but what about digital? Theoretically the digital signal should be comparable to a purchased MP3, yet I'm not aware of any restrictions.

This is only my opinion, but I think the reason the same restrictions don't exist with HD is the MusicFirst coalition doesn't have enough strength to run completely over the NAB, which is why the same thing happens every year with performance royalties (a pet project of former Sen. Hatch for years) and every year NAB gets more than enough members of congress to sign off on a "pledge" not to "tax" radio. The record labels easily ran over streaming groups and the CRB is still in MusicFirst's pocket.

Sept 2, 2021 15:33:13 GMT -6 CAwasinNJ said:

Speaking of The Beatles and long blocks, they have a long history of specialty shows featuring their music dating back to the 80's. By tuning into 3 different stations in and around New York City, you could hear Beatles music for 3-4 hours straight on Sunday mornings. I agree that checking the Kool stream this weekend should be interesting. Another one I should remember to check is WABC's Sunday night Sinatra show. That's 3 hours of Sinatra music and they do stream.

I wonder if WABC has a deal with the record label or Sinatra's estate? That is, to my knowledge, the only way to get around the 2-3-4 rules. The copyright holder can waive the rule but the station has to have written authorization. We did it a few times with artists in Las Vegas, but not frequently.

[CAwasinNJ]

Ah, so there IS a loophole. That makes sense. 3 hours a week, every week, probably results in a nice chunk of change. That would be a good enough reason for a lot of rights holders.

[David]

I think I've figured out how KOOL 105.5 is getting around the streaming rules with their all Beatles weekend. I listened to the first 2 1/2 hours today, and the stream seems to match what's going out over the air. However, they're repeating several songs almost every hour. I think I heard "My Sweet Lord" by George Harrison and "Let 'Em In" by Paul McCartney at least three times between 12 Noon and 2:30 this afternoon. The other thing KOOL 105.5 is doing is mixing in tunes from the Beatles solo careers which probably counts as a different artist; i.e. The Beatles followed by a Paul McCartney or George Harrison solo song. Based on what Frank described earlier in the thread, Broadway Media appears to have found a loophole in the streaming rules so the online stream for KOOL 105.5 matches what's going out over the air.

[fmdj1]

Interesting. I guess that may work. I do believe, like you said David, any solo work, or even different bands that may have featured one of them (any Traveling Wilburys in there?) would count as a different artist. With repeating the same song in a shorter period of time, though, I suspect they are taking a pretty narrow reading of "no more than 3 tracks" rule and calling it the same track. I doubt the CRB cares enough about a relatively small station in Utah to split hairs over it, but I wouldn't try to pull that stunt in NYC or LA. Overall, though, I'm glad they have resurrected an idea that I thought had died with the advent of the streaming rules.

*edit* I wonder if Paul McCartney with Wings counts as a different band than Paul McCartney?

[CAwasinNJ]

Comon guys. Let's think for a minute. Forget about the streaming rules. I can't believe that airing the same song three times in two and a half hours was intentional. That's crazy. I know there must be duplicates over the course of a weekend. The entire Beatles catalog is less than 13 hours, plus the solo work. But, there should be multiple hours between airings of the same song. Even a real Beatles fan (of which I am one) would go "I just heard this one, play something different." It makes much more sense that the automation was screwed up.

As far as whether that would get around the rules, there's nothing in what Frank posted saying anything about the tracks having to be different. The same song by definition must be by the same artist. I would agree that The Beatles and any of their solo work should be considered as different artists. Whether Paul alone is different from Wings isn't quite as clear but I'd give them the benefit of the doubt since you can make a case that if the artist billing on the album/single is different it's a different artist.

(pause)

OK. So I just logged the last hour+. Mostly they're alternating back and forth between a Beatles track and a solo track.

5:27 Band on the Run
5:30 This Boy
5:32 Got My Mind Set On You
5:36 I Will
5:38 My Love
(break)
5:46 Get Back (single version)
5:49 Let 'Em In
5:54 My Sweet Lord
5:58 Rocky Raccoon
6:02 My Sweet Lord
6:07 Photograph
6:10 The Long and Winding Road
6:14 Silly Love Songs
6:20 The Fool on the Hill
6:22 Give Me Love
6:26 Hello, Goodbye
6:29 #9 Dream
6:34 Let It Be (album version)
6:38 Roll Over Beethoven

And yes they really did play My Sweet Lord twice in less than 10 minutes (and right after Let 'Em In.) It's a really good song, but not that much!

That's 9 Beatles songs in 70 minutes which is well over Restriction 1 that Frank posted. I don't think Restriction 2 was broken yet, but I'm only familiar with the album track listings for the Fabs, not the solo albums. In that set there were two different sets of two songs from the same album, or four sets if you count the double White Album and Past Masters as a single album.


By the way, this isn't a new idea. The Arrow has been doing the All Beatles Christmas off and on (mostly on) for something like 15 years at least.

P.S. If anyone wants the direct Kool FM stream feed without having to use their webpage player it's
ais-sa1.streamon.fm/7730_48k.aac/playlist.m3u8

[David]

I'm not so sure that the repeated plays of the same Beatles songs are due to an automation malfunction. I heard multiple repeats on Friday afternoon during both Alan Hague's and Rob Bochard's air shifts, so unless the DJ'S on KOOL 105.5 are voice tracked, I'm inclined to believe there's another reason I heard the same song three times in the span of 2 1/2 hours. Anyone know if the 105.5 DJ segments are live or voice tracked?

[CAwasinNJ]

I don't know about Friday, but what I heard Saturday sounded voice tracked to me.

If Kool was a Top 40 station in the 70's and those songs were the current #1 I would believe it was intentional airing it once an hour. (My Sweet Lord did hit #1 in Dec 1970; Let 'Em In only reached #3 in 1976.) Top 40 radio hasn't existed for 40 years and obviously none of those songs are currents. I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt because the only alternative I can think of is that it was scheduled that way deliberately and that is....not good.

[tardiscaptain]

I think the album play on late Sunday evenings was a syndicated show IIRC. I always figured that the provider had already cleared the rights to play the whole album with some "behind the scenes" trivia between the songs.

I also remember listening to Doctor Demento on Sunday evenings on KRSP back in the 80's. It was a perfect way to end the weekend.

Thinking about these and the recent conversations about the late Sunday shows on 103.1 The Wave (Resurrection Radio replacing Unrest on the Seventh Day) made me wonder. Are there different rules for non-peak times on radio broadcasts when it came to airplay rules? I know that with 103.1 The Wave, the Sunday shows were the same on air as they were on streaming.

[fmdj1]

Sept 5, 2021 19:31:41 GMT -6 tardiscaptain said:

Thinking about these and the recent conversations about the late Sunday shows on 103.1 The Wave (Resurrection Radio replacing Unrest on the Seventh Day) made me wonder. Are there different rules for non-peak times on radio broadcasts when it came to airplay rules? I know that with 103.1 The Wave, the Sunday shows were the same on air as they were on streaming.

To my knowledge, there are a few specific rules for over-the-air radio based on time, but they all fall under safe harbor, so it won't impact most stations around Utah unless they really feel like going blue would attract a different audience overnight. They still can't be obscene, though, only indecent and/or profane. However, in my experience, programmers will often make choices based on dayparts, so you'll get specialty shows on weekends that you would never hear during drive times. Most programmers are going to play the safest, broadest appealing stuff during their weekdays daytime hours and only get adventurous at night or on weekends.

Regarding streaming rules, to my knowledge they apply at all times. Outside of getting a specific waiver from artist or labels, if a station is breaking those rules I suspect they either aren't aware of them (you would be surprised how many professionals in radio don't know) or are blatantly ignoring them hoping they don't get caught (which also happens in this business all the time)