Advertising discussion

[thebaldone]

With over 100 radio stations in the metro Salt Lake Area, how many really make an influence in people's daily life? I may flip through 7 or 8 AT MOST and never touch the others. Whenever I talk to anyone in the Salt Lake area, they usually have 1 or 2 radio stations that they listen to when they don't have a CD or their Ipod. If I were an advertiser, I wouldn't go with any station unless it had a PROVEN audience and success. It's easy to have a good quarter according to Arbitron, but that wouldn't be the proof I would need... especially advertising in the 10's of thousands of dollars. Come-on, we have all been to remotes where the same people show up (what few there actually are) for the freebees. Even if those people are there to see the DJ, they aren't usually the ones buying a car or getting services. So... why pay a DJ $100 an hour to be at one of those places???

In my mind, I would only put money towards a few things on the radio... BYU football games (not even the Jazz anymore!), and maybe a morning or afternoon drive on a news station where people pay attention to what is being said rather than for the beat or hit song. Other than that, TV is a reliable way to advertise... even the print... but radio stations don't even 'paint the picture' for the audience anymore. I drove cross country for Thanksgiving and I couldn't stand 6-7 minutes of :60 spots. Most of the 60 seconds were fluff to use up the time... what ever happened to :30's?

Music stations sometimes promo a break lasting "no longer than 2 minutes...." but they play 2 other breaks that hour that last at least 5 minutes...

Gosh, just brain storming, but as a radio guy myself, am I on to something or just out of touch with what listeners really want... and what will sell to them?

Lets talk, I am sick of having nothing to talk about as far as Salt Lake Radio... and beyond.

[seattlefollower]

[shadow=red,left,300]Lets talk, I am sick of having nothing to talk about as far as Salt Lake Radio... and beyond. [/shadow]

Got to agree there. Canadian politics are shaping up to be a hell of a lot more interesting.

IMHO, the FCC needs to pursue its 'localism' efforts. Did you know that Canadian stations (besides having to play 35+% Canadian-content) must do news a few times a day? It makes for better radio... (Even older ref of a good example: BBC Radio 1)

I also think the mandate to play 49% or more of non-hits is a good one. I'm unclear if that is only for "oldies" stations but I think it's reflected in the fact that Canadian audiences still use the radio, despite having access to the iPhone and the Internet and other news/entertainment sources for most of their population.

Sorry to talk so much about Canada, but I am able to hear some BC media and also am amazed that their industry has so much consolidation yet has strong products and continues to have good margins.

[CAwasinNJ]

I think there's a bigger problem with advertising. I don't think it works nearly as well as the industry wants to think it does. The two categories where an ad really makes sense to me is when you're communicating something new (new store, new product, a sale, etc) or selling something that is rarely needed (mechanic, heating/cooling, real estate agent, etc) so you need to hear about it when the time is right. Other times, you just tune it out because it isn't relevant to you.

With ordinary products or services I just don't think it works. Take the cola wars for example. We know who the major players are. What exactly is the incentive to change based on advertising? Everyone has seen the ads that say how great their cola tastes. Whoopee doo. Chances are excellent that I've tried all the brands and I drink the one I like best. Is there any real chance that advertising is going to make my tastes change? Not really. So why do it? I think companies are just afraid of the what-if's. So they just keep doing what they've always done. Call it Emperor's New Clothes Syndrome. Now maybe a better idea would be to scale way back on advertising and lower the price. That should stimulate sales.

As far as government mandates go, that makes me really nervous. I really don't want the government dictating what the media can and cannot do. That flies in the face of how America traditionally functions, not to mention the concept of freedom of speech. I'm already not happy with the extent to which the government put pressure on broadcasters. I say let the market decide. If radio stations want to flush themselves down the toilet, let them. That will allow someone with vision to come along and do something that people really want. Then the visionary will get rewarded when the people drive business to him or her. Right now radio is stagnant. It will have to adapt or die, just like anything else. Its done it before and it will again. It just takes time.

[Timmy]

Just one point to make... I really think that live-read ads are very effective. Especially on a music station. A lot of times you're there to hear your fave DJ as well as the tunes. But if your Fave DJ starts casually talking about a product or place, especially in a non-stop set, it makes it feel less commercial and more natural and real. If stations could throw in a couple live-read ads an hour for those best ad-buyers for what CA said about something new or rarely needed, they would make more headway in getting people in the door.

[thebaldone]

Live reads are good, but Dj's get so lazy now-a-days that they usually just read the Live Copy word for word. And usually they mispronounce, mess up and sometimes just destroy the live read. In order to sell those, you have to have DJ's that will pre-read each of them multiple times so that they can actually sell it.

I like live reads, but there was a time where they made me sooooo nervous. Live reads are good for the experienced Jock who doesn't over think things. Too much thinking while you are on the air can be a bad thing.

Oh Canada! Never heard Canadian radio. But the idea that radio SHOULD be localized more than it is is a great argument. That way it will open more jobs and be fun.

Where I work, in the middle of no-where, but also a land of $$$, the radio station doesn't have much competition... just three satellite formats that suck. We don't have to do big events to win listeners, we do it anyway... and they are fun. No pressure to beat the Jones' station across town, we already do... just making memories. About 80% of the stations in SLC only do things to win listeners, not to repay them for listening. Its easy to tell which ones in SLC do that and which ones don't... Just follow each station and the events they throw. Although I don't work at the Blaze anymore, they do an excellent job of throwing events just to have some fun... the wine tasting, Viva la Salt Lake (or whatever they call it), etc... Thats why many on these boards would agree the Blaze rocks because they are real. Other stations don't so anything that isn't over COMMERCIALIZED or SPONSORIZED?

Random thoughts from a random guy.

[CAwasinNJ]

Oh, I definitely agree with Timmy. The live read is a great thing when it works. (A pre-canned spot is better than a really bad live read.) Danny Kramer on KDYL is a master at it. He sounds very natural and conversational whether he's doing his usual DJ material or a live read and the segues a very smooth. That kind of thing is a real lost art. Who else is really good at it?

You know what else is good about getting out an doing a live remote? You can get real feedback from real listeners about what they really like/dislike/want/whatever. Sure there are focus groups and consultants and all that, but I don't think you learn nearly as much as interacting with and having a conversation with your real audience one on one. Do many PD's or station managers go out to remotes? if they don't, they should. Just have them hang out near the DJ's and listen for when someone has a comment about the station. Then say "hey, you know it's my job to decide about whatever you're talking about. Can you take a few minutes and talk to me about it?" Now even if the listener is a complete whackjob who thinks the classic rock station should play "Stairway to Heaven" at the top of every hour, at least you'll get some feedback into what <i>real</i> people want and they'll feel appreciated.

[Timmy]

Just to add to my previous comment. I also think it's more effective when a DJ does a straight read of an ad, even though it's recorded. If it plays in a stop-set during his shift, like in the 2nd or 3rd spot, it sounds more real. We all know it's canned, but since there's no swooshes and jingly music, it feels like he's really reading it.

[thebaldone]

what do you mean a straight read? when I hear straight read I think word fir word without really selling it... let me know...

I think live reads are best either first or last in the stopset. just my opinion. I personally hate to break up the commercial set and talk in the middle... my thinkning is that the listener for the most part tunes out of commercial sets after 45-60 seconds. they are also conditioned to know when the commercials are over. the DJ's talk is only going to be tuned out and/or aggrivate the listener because they think the stopset is over and its not. promos and live weather are good to go back into the music. PDs too often Do NOT look at things from a listeners perspective and CA has a great idea of what they should be doing at remotes.

this also brings me to pose the question again... why 60s and not 30s for commercials??
this brings me back

[Timmy]

Straight reads, meaning dry. No music or SFX. Just the DJ talking, like a live read, only pre-recorded.

[CAwasinNJ]

Great question Brian. It would be interesting to do a comparison of :30's and :60's and see if there really is more information in the longer version. I suspect not. If there were in a particular case, then the answer is fairly self explanatory. Otherwise I'd save everything I could and pick up a spare :30 here and there for the same money. I'm biased though, since I think commercials that don't give actual information are a waste.

From the relatively few rate cards I've seen, the :60 doesn't cost a lot more than the :30, so maybe it really doesn't matter. Is that how it is at your station?

[seattlefollower]

At KSL when I worked there a while ago, :30s were not discounted from :60s so there was no advantage to utilizing less air time. That may have changed as the industry has seen almost as much change as the newspaper one.

What does anyone think about that? I think I'm going to start an off-air thread.

[CAwasinNJ]

In that case, why not? It seems like most spots on radio these days are :60's.

That brings up an interesting question though. If you're getting the same money, why not eliminate the 60's, reduce the length of the stopset and maybe increase TSL (time spent listening)? That would be much less of a tune-out factor. You can even sell that to the advertisers as something people might actually listen to, rather than flipping to the other 3 stations that play the same music and aren't in a break right now.

[thebaldone]

You can see our rate cards on our website, channelx94.com ... then click on "marketplace" and there they are. I believe :30 are a few dollars cheaper than :60's, but (and I can't really say for sure because I am not in sales) we play mostly :30's and selling :60's aren't a priority.

Other stations I have worked at wouldn't even think of selling :30's... and that just baffles my mind. I would rather hear :30's than :60's. I am still a listener too...

[thebaldone]

Timmy, there are companies that sell a bunch of live reads that I prerecord for X94. Quick, simple and more like PSA's but with a sponsors message. We do just a couple a week and get about the same $$ as when I did them in SLC. I do them much like you are describing, but we can't do more than one a stopset or it gets fairly boring without the swooshes, music and such.

[CAwasinNJ]

While we're at it, why don't more stations put some kind of sales kit online? It's not really a huge secret. It's just that much harder to drum up new sales if you make potential clients jump through hoops to find it.