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Post by CAwasinNJ on Sept 19, 2008 10:14:57 GMT -6
There was an almost unintelligible squirt of a legal ID on KNRS at about 5 minutes before the top of the hour. I'm almost certain that I heard "Centerville" in there. I'm guessing that means that KNRS is on one of the subchannels of co-owned KTMY. Can anyone who has an IBOC radio confirm?
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Terry
Silver Level Member
Posts: 488
Usual Listening Area: east Murray
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Post by Terry on Oct 1, 2008 14:09:56 GMT -6
I finally broke down and bought an "HD" radio a few days ago, not because I have high expectations for its future as a medium, but because I have always had an inexplicable curiosity about the technical aspects of broadcasting.
To answer the immediate question, yes, KNRS is on KTMY-HD2 and it sounds better than on AM. The inclusion of the higher audio frequencies makes everything clearer.
For what it's worth, here's what I can pick up now in SLC:
89.1 HD2 BYU Radio
90.1 HD2 "xponential radio" WXPN Philadelphia - new music, mostly mellow
90.1 HD3 "Classical Public Radio" KVOD Denver
90.9 is not HD, though their Website says they are.
94.1 HD2 "Superhits of the 60s & 70s", no ads. Sounds a lot like KODJ.
97.1 HD2 bad rock and rap
98.7 HD (no subchannels)
99.5 HD2 SMOOTH JAZZ!!! Really!!!, no ads
100.3 HD2 "Soft Sunday Sounds"
101.1 HD (no subchannels)
102.7 HD2 "ichannel - Indies & Unsigned Bands" actually has an announcer. ichannel is owned by Bonneville International and is carried on HD subchannels in Chicago, DC, St. Louis, and Phoenix
103.5 HD2 "Deep Tracks", no ads. Sounds a lot like KRSP.
105.7 HD2 KNRS
106.5 HD2 "Continuous Light Rock Favorites" also called "Adult Variety Radio", no ads. Sounds like KOSY with a wider playlist. My wife listens to this one now instead of FM100.
On AM:
820 is not in HD.
910 ABC Disney - music sounds great in HD digital
1160 sounds just like 102.7 to me
At night I get a weak HD signal indicator on 850 (KOA Denver) and 1070 (KNX L.A.). Neither is strong enough to lock in the actual digital signal.
I didn't mention - the HD versions of the FM stations' main channels don't sound any different than the analog versions to me. But then, my ears are 62 years old.
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Post by CAwasinNJ on Oct 1, 2008 23:12:30 GMT -6
So the new owners of KUTR turned the buzz box off? Interesting. Since it was already installed, I thought they'd leave it on.
I'm also surprised that KUER is splitting the digital bandwidth between three music services. did you happen to notice if the HD3 is on air when the analog/HD1 is running jazz? Maybe they lower the bitrate on HD1 during the daytime talk programming.
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Post by seattlefollower on Oct 2, 2008 0:28:42 GMT -6
So the new owners of KUTR turned the buzz box off? Interesting. Since it was already installed, I thought they'd leave it on. I'm also surprised that KUER is splitting the digital bandwidth between three music services. did you happen to notice if the HD3 is on air when the analog/HD1 is running jazz? Maybe they lower the bitrate on HD1 during the daytime talk programming. I know that KUER's music channels sound quite good to my untrained ear on my friend's car stereo. I have no idea if they are above "FM" quality but it's nice they're trying to offer more choices. When it comes to KUTR, I suppose it depends on if the equipment was at the transmitter or in the racks at Bonneville. I'm thinking it was the latter and there's probably a *yawn* satellite link up feeding right into KUTR's 6 tower array. Why? Who knows. |
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Post by CAwasinNJ on Oct 2, 2008 22:16:08 GMT -6
What's done for IBOC is actually the transmitter itself. It has to be set up to do the two signals that are required. There are actually two signals being broadcast right next to each other at the same time. One is the conventional analog signal that we all know, and around it with presumably some kind of notch filter in it is the digital signal. You can't just slap a piece of equipment in and have it work. The transmitter specifically needs to be set up to do digital and not all can be.
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Terry
Silver Level Member
Posts: 488
Usual Listening Area: east Murray
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Post by Terry on Oct 2, 2008 23:30:23 GMT -6
I'm also surprised that KUER is splitting the digital bandwidth between three music services. did you happen to notice if the HD3 is on air when the analog/HD1 is running jazz? Maybe they lower the bitrate on HD1 during the daytime talk programming. All 3 services run 24 hours. My ears don't notice any lower quality on the 90.1 channels than on other FM stations. Also, for what it's worth, AM 910 in not in HD now. I don't whether they have suddenly quit or it's just off temporarily. |
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Post by CAwasinNJ on Oct 4, 2008 1:11:59 GMT -6
Maybe 910 is turning it off at night to avoid screwing things up on skywave?
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Post by dxstuboy on Oct 4, 2008 10:25:13 GMT -6
Maybe 910 is turning it off at night to avoid screwing things up on skywave? That would be a miracle. Now if we could just get KSL to do the same. Also, as far as a difference between FM and HD-FM, I'm 24 years old and I can't tell a single difference. AM-HD, now there is the difference, though I still can't comprehend why someone would want to switch. It would be cool though to see how far digital signals travel at night, whether or not you could actually DX HD signals. For now though, I'm still not switching. |
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Post by michaeljwyo on Oct 4, 2008 13:58:50 GMT -6
I won't go off into some IBOC rant - last time I did I got in trouble. However I will mention that Thursday I also noticed that 910 didn't have any IBOC sidebands so I don't know why they have it turned off. Also noticed that yes 820 doesn't have it on anymore either. CA is right.....there's a lot that has to be done to the transmitter and also the antennas. Running IBOC through an array is no easy task. KSL is a no-brainer. One tower. All the time day or night no power change no pattern change. KUTR has SIX!!! No I can't blame them at all. I know John Dehnel is a miracle worker.....heck he ran Kahn Hazeltine AM Stereo through the old Western Electric (I think) transmitter at KSL in the 80s. I can't blame him for not attempting to try it at night through the 6-tower array - then too it might not have been his decision. But I don't think that there's any station anywhere running IBOC through a 6-tower array. In most cases you're lucky if they're running through a simple 2-tower array. I think that's why most stations (such as KWDZ 910 and KUTR 820) run it (or ran it) during the day only when they're only on one tower non-directional. KOAL in Price is another one. During the day on one tower, yes. At night on their directional 2-tower array, no. KOA-850 in Denver, yes. One tower all the time. KNX 1070 in L.A. same story. And soon 640 KFI once they get the problems worked out with their new tower......they'll turn the iboc back on and run it 24/7 I'm sure.
Another thought on the KUTR situation.....I am sure there is no studio anywhere for it. It probably is indeed just a satellite downlink right at the transmitter site in Cove Fort. Can we say LOW MAINTENENCE ?? Most of your religious satellite stations don't have any local employees. No one to man the fort. They don't need them and don't want them. Just put in a satellite dish and walk away. Again...if you had timers running to turn the IBOC on and off it's still one more thing that can go wrong. Keep it as simple as possible. Put in EAS equipment and a dish at the transmitter site and nobody has to be around, ever. If something goes wrong, the remote control calls them and they call their engineer to go check it out. An engineer that I'm sure is just contract and takes care of many many stations in a large region.
Anyways....a few thoughts for you
Michael n wyo
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Post by michaeljwyo on Oct 4, 2008 14:10:18 GMT -6
One more reply to Stu. I actually DID buy the Accurian HD radio in order to see if I could DX digital. No luck, however. It sits in its box underneath the foot of the bed. Why? Nothing to listen to here. One time, at night I DID take it out and try for a couple of solid digital signals on AM. KNX and KOA both coming in great. Yet even WITH the supplied loop antenna AND my Terk AM Advantage tuned loop it STILL would not decode anything. I want to say that on KNX I actually got it to say "KNX" on the display but that was it. No decoding whatsoever. Not even on KSL. One day while out in the front yard WITH the supplied loop and WITH the Terk loop, I DID get KUTR to decode for a few seconds. KSL would show up on the display but would never decode. The only time I've seen the AMs decode was when I bought the damn thing and I was IN Utah. So in short, no I don't believe we'll be able to DX digital. That's what I wanted to know. I have, however, heard the same thing from others about this Accurian that I have....it's deaf. As far as FM is concerned I really don't see that happening either especially with FM IBOC being only 1% of the main's power. So a 100,000 watt station is only putting out 1000 watts of power as far as the IBOC is concerned. So even if I CAN get a good signal, I don't think the HD will decode. My only hope for FM HD would be if any of the Humpy stations installed it. And EVEN SO......here on this Accurian it's just as deaf on the FM side too. Man I ought to put that thing on Ebay. I can't see ever using it and I'm really disappointed. When I bought it and I was in Utah, I COULD tell the difference between the analog signal and the digital signal on the FM side. But ONLY on those stations that weren't using any sub-channels. Like 98.7. I could tell it was clearer and sounded more like CD. But that was it. The ones that have stuff on their HD2's sounded about the same. If anything MAYBE a little less processed and a little cleaner. 98.7 was the only one that impressed me. It was really REALLY clean on the HD side versus the analog side. So....anyone want to buy an HD radio?  Michael n Wyo |
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Post by CAwasinNJ on Oct 4, 2008 21:39:13 GMT -6
I can't be sure, but it seemed like both 820 and 910 had the sideband hash on this afternoon and then off again this evening. I don't have a digital tuner (and I doubt I'll ever get one) so I'm not positive. There even seemed to be some hash on 1010 which would be an interesting development, but it doesn't make a lot of sense. I'm thinking I got fooled there.
The sooner all this garbage goes away the better.
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Terry
Silver Level Member
Posts: 488
Usual Listening Area: east Murray
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Post by Terry on Oct 4, 2008 23:14:11 GMT -6
On the AM band, only KSL was in HD this afternoon.
For what it's worth, tonight I get an HD signal indicator on several AM stations, but none of them actually lock in to give me the digital signal:
600 KOGO, 850 KOA, 950 (Denver?), 1040 WHO, 1070 KNX, 1080 KRLD, 1530 KFBK, 1700 XEPE
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Terry
Silver Level Member
Posts: 488
Usual Listening Area: east Murray
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Post by Terry on Oct 5, 2008 13:30:06 GMT -6
While scanning across the dial this afternoon I notice that 820 is again transmitting in digital. 910 is not. 97.1 announces that they are using HD, but they are not today, though they were yesterday. 90.9 is still not HD. 106.5 HD2 has great programming, but every song is labeled "Hands/Jewel". "HD" radio is not quite ready for prime time.
On another note, 1480 Spanish Fork is simulcasting KSL -- not just LDS Conference broadcasts, but everything, including the Doug Wright Show and ABC News on the hour and KSL local news. Odd.
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Post by CAwasinNJ on Oct 5, 2008 20:32:16 GMT -6
Odd indeed. I would think that both KSL AM & FM would be very audible in KHQN's coverage area. Is there any technical reason for them to do that? (I'm specifically excluding public service arguments and things of that type.)
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Post by Timmy on Oct 7, 2008 6:14:11 GMT -6
So....anyone want to buy an HD radio? Michael n Wyo How much?? |
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